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Sexing D. Filamentosus Juvies...

DH247

Member
5 Year Member
Hey!

I have been doing a fair amount of research into these guys... I picked up a group of 6 juvies at LFS here in Vancouver. From what I've learned I should be seeing differences between males and females pretty shortly as they are all starting to hit 2"TL.

All the pics I have seen of adult males show no black in the ventral fins and of course, the lyre tail. So far a couple are showing touches of red, but all have black in their ventrals. Do juvie males show the black in the ventral fins? Is the same true of juvie apistos? As well, none are showing any signs of a lyre tail. And one is showing signs of copper colour on it's side, confirming filamentosus. Just wondering if I should be going back to try and find a couple of males, if I indeed do have all females. Any thoughts are welcome!
 

Apistomaster

Member
5 Year Member
A well developed lyretail is among the last of the male characteristics to develop but they are capable of spawning now. In any given group of D. filamentosus, I find the males tend to outnumber females. A two inch female is a large female. The shape and colors on the female are distinctly different from the males regardless of whether she has spawned before. The wide range of D. filamentosus means there are minor differences between geographical races so I would not use any hints of black to determine sexes.
Here are a fully developed breeding pair. You can easily see the difference between the body shapes of male/female. this is your best guide at any age.
 

DH247

Member
5 Year Member
Thanks! Come the morning I will have a closer look for differences in the bodies. And hopefully see what I've got. Cheers :wink:
 

DH247

Member
5 Year Member
Well, after some close consideration I think I may have all females :frown: I will let the other smaller ones grow out some more but I think that's the gist of it.... I have been trying to get pics for your collective consideration, bu they have been camera shy... Hopefully tomorrow... Thanks again!
 

Randall

Active Member
5 Year Member
Diocrossus filamentosus

Hello guys,

Isn't Dicrossus filamentosus a hermaphrodite? They are born females and metamorphose in the absence of a mature male as is necessary.

DH247, chill out and see what develops!

Good luck!

Randall Kohn
 

specJ

New Member
5 Year Member
Hello guys,

Isn't Diocrossus filamentosus a hermaphrodite? They are born females and metamorphose in the absence of a mature male as is necessary.

DH247, chill out and see what develops!

Good luck!

Randall Kohn
As far as I know I haven't heard of d. filamentosus having ever been a sex-changer... The only species within the (dwarf cichlids) That I have heard of was in Crenicara punctulata.

The best way to determine sex in non-mature fishes have been the coloration of the scales. In young males, you will see a slight tint of blue within the band just below the lateral line and behind the cheek and it will run alongside the lateral line. in females, it is absent. another way I have found to be helpful is the general color of the fish. males will be predominantly a copperish hue whereas the females will be silverish. hope this helps. john
 

Randall

Active Member
5 Year Member
Dicrosussus filamentosus

Hello specJ,

I'm pretty sure that Dicrosussus filamentosus is a hermaphrodite...a protogynous hermaphrodite (one that starts its life as a female). If memory serves (it often doesn't!), Ted Judy published an article about his experience with hermaphrodism in D. filamentosus about ten years ago, and subsequently a more extensive article was published in the "Buntbarsche Bulletin" (I don't remember who wrote it) to the same effect.

Hermaphrodism sure comes in handy when there's not a male around. :)

All the best,

Randall Kohn
 

specJ

New Member
5 Year Member
Hello specJ,

I'm pretty sure that Dicrosussus filamentosus is a hermaphrodite...a protogynous hermaphrodite (one that starts its life as a female). If memory serves (it often doesn't!), Ted Judy published an article about his experience with hermaphrodism in D. filamentosus about ten years ago, and subsequently a more extensive article was published in the "Buntbarsche Bulletin" (I don't remember who wrote it) to the same effect.

Hermaphrodism sure comes in handy when there's not a male around. :)

All the best,

Randall Kohn
I have read Ted's article and it does raise some great ideas and interests about these fish. All I am saying is that from my own groups of juvenile fish raised from one spawn, I have run into situations where all the fishes have turned out to be males (under different conditions of water, ph, temp, chem). If the events in this article and what others have said are true, then with every group of juvenile fish there should be mostly females and only the most dominant individual(s) would become male (which is what happens with the wrasse where sex changes have been documented and duplicated within scientific experiments). I haven't seen any reports of experiments and more importantly duplications of the supposed sex change in d. filamentosus to believe it to be true. I hope the scientific community does look further into this matter. would be interesting to see where it ends up.

I can't seem to locate the other article, but would love to have a pdf. file or link to where I could attain it. thanks. john
 

DH247

Member
5 Year Member
Well, hermaphrodites or not... I know I have at least one, if not possibly two males :biggrin: One is showing more red in the dorsal and anal fins while the other is still smaller and has more of a copperish hue with a touch of red in the dorsal... I think... Who knows, maybe at this point I'm looking for it and seeing what isn't there! I REALLY want two males and the rest to be females... Two trios from a group of 6 wild caught juvies would be stellar!! Here's to hoping :cool:

Thank you for the tips! I've been watching closely and feeding lots of live foods. They're size is much larger already than what's left at the LFS. Pretty cool to see how much better they do on live foods and proper water params...
 

Apistomaster

Member
5 Year Member
Dicrossus filamentosus is among my favorite SA dwarf Cichlids and I have been breeding them off and on for four decades and have yet to see any evidence of hermorphodism. Suppression of secondary sexual characteristic like color intensity of subdominant males in the presence of a dominant male is common though. Body shape is defining regardless of status. If all the fish are the same sex in a group it could lead to false conclusions when trying to determines sexes if one has no previous experience with this species.
 
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