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Resources on learning about apisto?

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
Is there a site or a list of sites or books that you usually goes to for information about apisto.

I find members here are very well informed about species, behaviours etc.

I would like to learn more about apisto in the sense of what are the species available
which is available at
and
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/560hw2
But in addition to that, I would like to learn more about apisto in general.
For example,
- different species aggressiveness (Borelli less aggressive?)
- certain terms/jargon like tefe, fire red etc and the forms?
- sexing and behavior, some are polygamy while some are not?

Or put it simply, is there a FAQ or repository for beginner on apisto?

Thank you for your time in reading.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
Of course Tom's Homepage comes to mind first. Tom, Mike and some other authors from that site are present here on the forum aswell.
Generally a good site with reliable information. More generalistic but for sure always one of my first places to look for information besides fishbase. Sadly hasn't been updated in a while as a website. Don't know what happened to their community, but I'm glad it's still online.
Also a great site. Not as extensive, but more in-depth.
Similar site to Tom's Homepage, though in German.

But in addition to that, I would like to learn more about apisto in general.
For example,
- different species aggressiveness (Borelli less aggressive?)
The aggression level of certain species can hardly be generalized, and may have really strong biases as
- certain terms/jargon like tefe, fire red etc and the forms?
While catch locations/river names (like Tefe) can easily be googled. "Fire red" and the like are trade names. And finally there are descriptive names for fish not yet scientifically described. Many of these become trade names.

There is no complete glossary for this. I would suggest you take the initiative and start a topic here and on other forums and ask for all the trade names people know.
- sexing and behavior, some are polygamy while some are not?
While sexing and behaviour are often easy to research, mono/polygamous is indeed a point rarely just given in short in fish profiles. Most often you find this in the "breeding" section of detailed fish profile.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
511
Is there a site or a list of sites or books that you usually goes to for information about apisto.

I find members here are very well informed about species, behaviours etc.

I would like to learn more about apisto in the sense of what are the species available
which is available at
and
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/560hw2
But in addition to that, I would like to learn more about apisto in general.
For example,
- different species aggressiveness (Borelli less aggressive?)
- certain terms/jargon like tefe, fire red etc and the forms?
- sexing and behavior, some are polygamy while some are not?

Or put it simply, is there a FAQ or repository for beginner on apisto?

Thank you for your time in reading.
I don't have an answer but i wish more sites talked about mono/poly and aggression level. I will state the my borelli aggression is significantly less than hongsloi (esp m/f aggression); the borelli seems almost non-existance. My nijjensi had no m/f aggression to the point i thought they were a bonded pair but they are said to be very aggressive towards other cichlid. When I had a pair i did not have any other cichlid in the tank and they left the other stocking alone.
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
Of course Tom's Homepage comes to mind first. Tom, Mike and some other authors from that site are present here on the forum aswell.
Generally a good site with reliable information. More generalistic but for sure always one of my first places to look for information besides fishbase. Sadly hasn't been updated in a while as a website. Don't know what happened to their community, but I'm glad it's still online.
Also a great site. Not as extensive, but more in-depth.
Similar site to Tom's Homepage, though in German.


The aggression level of certain species can hardly be generalized, and may have really strong biases as

While catch locations/river names (like Tefe) can easily be googled. "Fire red" and the like are trade names. And finally there are descriptive names for fish not yet scientifically described. Many of these become trade names.

There is no complete glossary for this. I would suggest you take the initiative and start a topic here and on other forums and ask for all the trade names people know.

While sexing and behaviour are often easy to research, mono/polygamous is indeed a point rarely just given in short in fish profiles. Most often you find this in the "breeding" section of detailed fish profile.
Thank you for the detailed reply!

I'm sorry I'm not even familiar with the authoritative personnel in the circle.
But since you mentioned about Tom, I recalled that I visited a site 1 to 2 days back that has some good information about apisto and I think it might be the same person.
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
I don't have an answer but i wish more sites talked about mono/poly and aggression level. I will state the my borelli aggression is significantly less than hongsloi (esp m/f aggression); the borelli seems almost non-existance. My nijjensi had no m/f aggression to the point i thought they were a bonded pair but they are said to be very aggressive towards other cichlid. When I had a pair i did not have any other cichlid in the tank and they left the other stocking alone.
Thanks for the info.

I take note of that and hopefully, I can compile a list and post it when I have enough information.

Thanks again.
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
Thank you for the detailed reply!

I'm sorry I'm not even familiar with the authoritative personnel in the circle.
But since you mentioned about Tom, I recalled that I visited a site 1 to 2 days back that has some good information about apisto and I think it might be the same person.
Sorry, just replying to myself on my own mistake.

When MacZ mentioned Tom's website, I didn't realize Tom's website is a clickable link and thought it is referring to Seriously Fish.

So, I provided a redundant information.

That said, Tom's website and SeriouslyFish seems to use the same look and feel.
 

Tom C

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
Location
Norway
..... I would like to learn more about apisto
The first thing you should learn is that you have no right to use other people's photos as you want.
You have used my and others' photos in your list, much has been stolen from Fishbase. Below most of the photos you have used from Fishbase, it is clearly stated:
"© ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Image may not be used for any purpose without permission from the copyright holder."
The images posted on Fishbase under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 Unported License, include:
"Image can be freely copied and altered but may be used only for non-commercial purposes. Original author and source must be properly acknowledged."
You have not even managed to meet this last requirement.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
The first thing you should learn is that you have no right to use other people's photos as you want.
You have used my and others' photos in your list, much has been stolen from Fishbase. Below most of the photos you have used from Fishbase, it is clearly stated:
"© ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Image may not be used for any purpose without permission from the copyright holder."
The images posted on Fishbase under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 Unported License, include:
"Image can be freely copied and altered but may be used only for non-commercial purposes. Original author and source must be properly acknowledged."
You have not even managed to meet this last requirement.
The op hasn't linked his own website and the reddit post is five years old and doesn't look either like he posted it. I think he only posted both as examples of what he's looking for.

Did I miss anything?
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
I'm sorry that I really didn't meant to use any photos.

I paste the reddit link and it automatically included the content from reddit.

If this is not allowed, I'm happy to remove the link but I can't seems to find a way to edit the post.

Or, maybe can the mod please help me to remove this post altogether if this is not allowed.

My apologies for the concern caused.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
I'm sorry that I really didn't meant to use any photos.

I paste the reddit link and it automatically included the content from reddit.

If this is not allowed, I'm happy to remove the link but I can't seems to find a way to edit the post.

Or, maybe can the mod please help me to remove this post altogether if this is not allowed.

My apologies for the concern caused.
Question: Did you set up a website or posted that post on reddit? If not, you only posted the URL and that's it. That's allowed.

Responsible is the user on reddit who posted the pictures. And I agree, that person took pictures from all over the place.

That said: Reddit posts (or anything on that website) are not reliable resources. I would rather link to Wikipedia.
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
Question: Did you set up a website or posted that post on reddit? If not, you only posted the URL and that's it. That's allowed.

Responsible is the user on reddit who posted the pictures. And I agree, that person took pictures from all over the place.

That said: Reddit posts (or anything on that website) are not reliable resources. I would rather link to Wikipedia.
No, I did not have any website related to apisto nor used any of the photos.
I also did not post that post on reddit either.

Maybe can you please help to change the post to a link instead of including the whole content.
Or, remove that link altogether.

I pasted only the link but the content was included.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
Don't. Panic.

No, I did not have any website related to apisto nor used any of the photos.
I also did not post that post on reddit either.
Ok, then all is settled.

Maybe can you please help to change the post to a link instead of including the whole content.
Or, remove that link altogether.
I only see the link, nothing else. Also I can't as I'm not part of the forum team.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
511
No, I did not have any website related to apisto nor used any of the photos.
I also did not post that post on reddit either.

Maybe can you please help to change the post to a link instead of including the whole content.
Or, remove that link altogether.

I pasted only the link but the content was included.
I think @Tom C missed that they were links and you didn't actually copy the pictures so I would presume it is settled and you don't need to worry about it. Give him a day or two to chime in. There is a problem with people copying other people pictures and website and profiting off them but that is not the case here.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
10,632
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Rogero, look at the species list on Tom's site. You'll see that there are ~500 species/distinct forms in the genus. No book even comes close to showing even a fraction of these.

Best books with photos: DATZ book and Cichlid Atlas 1 & 2. Both outdated now.

Best book on apisto habitats & behavior: Die Buntbarsche Americas, v.2: Apistogramma & Co.

Do a search here and you will find reviews of all.
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
Thanks all for the inputs.

I only realize the amount of info available at Tom's site after MacZ mentioned it.

Noted on searching here for the review.
But I have to start with knowing the name of the species which I lack previously. :)

Will go through the details slowly.

Thanks again.
 

Tom C

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
Location
Norway
@rogero, I sincerely apologize. I missed that you just copied that list from reddit. My reaction was based on a belief that you are the one who created the list and the hyperlinks... I was wrong.

I think @Tom C missed that they were links...
I didn't miss that. And yes, normal (hyper)links to a website's pages are of course completely ok.

Under the US Copyright Act of 1976 and international copyright laws, the copyright proprietor owns a bundle of
rights. The copyright owner is the only one who has the right to
- reproduce the work in copies;
- prepare derivative works based on the original work;
- distribute copies to the public; or
- display and perform the work publicly.

I clearly consider the presented list as a "derivative work based on original works", because it contains all these hyperlinks.

I find a lot of unauthorized use of my photos on places like pinterest, ebay, other forums, other websites, and even in shops. I'm therefor a little extra sensitive... and I have told Google not to display any of my photos when people search for photos of fishes. I have seen my photos cropped to remove the tag with my name and my website's address, and some even put their own name on the photos, before publishing them.

My considerations about the use of other people's copyrighted material are based on legislation and / or moral and ethical considerations on the subject, that I have read:

- At the time of using copyrighted material from another website or server, it must be made sure that the material is used with permission, and if using it without permission it is crucial to provide credits to the original website and copyright proprietor.
- Check for, and respect, specific instructions given on the actual website for the use of the content.
(Fishbase says:"© ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Image may not be used for any purpose without permission from the copyright holder.")
- A hyperlink's display of a full-size image stripped from the original context and without credit to the actual website and/or the copyright proprietor, is not fair use.

The hyperlinks in that list don't display any credit to the site (fishbase.org etc.), nor to the original copyright proprietors. In the links referring to photos on my website (the old address to my site: apisto.sites.no is used), the links have been actively modified so that my name is not displayed.

Linking to websites' spesific pages, where the desired photos are published, would have been unproblematic. There both the name of the website and the owner of the copyright to the photos would have been visible.
But again: it would certainly not hurt to ask permission.

I will never accept the use of hyperlinks as in the presented list.
 

rogero

New Member
Messages
10
Hi Tom,

All is good from me and my apologies for the confusion caused.

In fact, if the moderator think it's better to remove the link, I'm totally fine as well.

And, thank you for all the content you have put up at your site.
 

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