1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Pulling Apisto Fry

Discussion in 'Husbandry / Breeding' started by central tanks, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. central tanks

    central tanks Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    My female has 6-9 free swimmers (counted 9 yesterday morning and 6 yesterday night, there hard to see).

    Can I pull the fry and put them in a breeder box on the side of the tank?
    How long should I wait to pull them?

    They are eating BBS, one iv noticed does not each much, its belly is never full like the others. There is not predatory fish in the tank. There is 6 pencil fish that the mom does a good job of chasing them off if they venture to close. My female is doing a good job (first free swimming fry iv ever had) but she is moving them around and protecting them.

    Should I leave them in main tank or pull them to a breeder box, maybe just pull a few of them? What do you guys think?

    In case your wondering they are apistogramma agassizii double reds.
  2. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't pull fry until they are at least 6 weeks old, especially those of common species. It's your choice, but don't be surprised if you loose a lot of them. Mom does a better job than I do when brooding fry.
    KJdts, ButtNekkid and dw1305 like this.
  3. central tanks

    central tanks Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Guess I will just keep monitoring them for a few more weeks. If I notice the fry number droping quick or mom stop caring as much ill pull them.
  4. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I also prefer to leave the fry with mom but many of my fish are in community tanks and sometimes predation by others is too strong, or aggressive protection of fry by the female is too strong and I move the fry to a breeding box. I had 2 dozen A. macmasteri reach adulthood in a community tank without any feeding or help from me. I pulled an A. panduro spawn in a busy community tank after about 4 weeks when only 7 fry were left. Just lst month I had two A. rubrolineata females spawn in the same tank and although aggression between the two was manageable I removed the spawn from one female and left the others with their mom. The latter have now perished but the ~25 in the breeding box are doing well so far. I had A. norberti spawn Friday last week so I expect the fry tomorrow or Monday. Both parents are very territorial so I hope those fry can be raised naturally in a tank with 14 other apistos and dithers.
    Mbkemp likes this.
  5. Happyfins

    Happyfins Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I do this and have found no adverse effects especially if you leave them swimming in the water of origin. there are quite nifty containers that you can hang on your tank and have water exchange. Target feeding wrks much better.
    yukondog likes this.
  6. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I just put my second breeding box to work on a dozen A. ortegai fry. One pair gave up as they were too much harrased by 6 geophagus. The other pair did well but I decided to remove part of the spawn to split the risk with now 12 in a breeding box hanging on the outside of the tank and getting continuous flow of tank water. I find that, especially in the beginning, the fry are lethargic and just resting on the bottom. That is what they often do if mom takes off to chase away an intruder and I think it takes them some time to feel at ease to swim around without mom signalling that it is safe to do so. If I put my real biologist hat on I'd make clay female decoys with different yellow and black markings to see if the fry respond to the correct colour pattern (though someone may have done that already). Anyway I now put a layer of salvinia floaters on top and some whole, or cut-up oak leafs on the bottom so they feel a bit more protected. Beyond that the breeding boxes work great and, unless you have very large spawns, you can grow them out to a size that they are safe to return to a community tank.

    Bart

    PS: The A. norberti fry is doing well and mom & dad are exemplary parents so far. I'll leave those fry with their parents for as long as possible as it is much more fun to see mom herding her flock around then the fry being in a sterile box.

    NorbertiMomFry.jpeg
    yukondog, dw1305 and ButtNekkid like this.
  7. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, it sure has - 55 years ago! See: Kuenzer, E & P. Kuenzer. 1962. Untersuchugen zur Brutpflege der Zwergcichliden Apistogramma reitzigi und A. borellii [Studies on the broodcare of dwarf cichlids Apistogramma reitzigi and A. borellii (then thought to be 2 different species, which they probably are). Z. Tierpsychol. 19: 56-82.
  8. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Nice old-school ethology. I studied biology in the 80s and the bird people would always do stuff like this. Steal bird's eggs and replace them with eggs of different colour, shape, or size. Interestingly, bird parents always went for the biggest eggs of the right colour, up to ridiculous sizes. They referred to it as super-stimuli (well I'm translating that from Dutch superprikkel).