Problem breedind cacatuoides

[danbb]

Hello
I have a 100 liter tank with apistogramma cacatuoides orange: 2 males and 5 females, for about 9 months. Three months ago the dominant male died, by then females had spawned about 3-4 times in total (without success), but since I introduced another male nothing happens in the tank. Two weeks ago one of the female has proved to be a camouflaged male. I would prefer one male, but now I found myself with two. If before the eggs hatch chances were small (I had Corydoras and assassins), now they are no longer in the tank, but no females is spawning anymore...
As you can see in the pictures, they got good conditions: plants, drift wood, sphagnum moss, coconut caves, oak leaves, alder fruits, blackwater extract, few rocks...

The water is: pH = 6.7 (set with controller), kH = 6, temp = 79 F
What to do next, take off this wo males and buy another, or wait more?

 

[Mike Wise]

Water values appear excellent, so your cacatuoides should be breeding. If you are doing regular water changes to reduce nitrates, all I can think is that the tank has too many fish and not enough territories or maybe that your food choices aren't good.

 

[danbb]

Thanks Mike. I change 20-25 % of water every week, or max 10 days. They eat only frozen food: arthemia, daphnia and mosquito larvae. I use to feed them only once a day, but now I feed them twice a day. I don't have live food.

 

[krudolph]

I have just started my journey into breeding cac's, so I am interested to hear how yours goes and any feedback from others. That does seem like a lot of fish for a 26 gallon tank if you are hoping to breed? From what I have read from other breeders, various scenarios work as far as combinations. Some work with one male and one female and others with a male and one or more females. Some say it works better if multiple pairs are in the same tank. So my take is many combinations will work, so maybe take one or more out? Better yet, take out a pair and put into another tank, so you are trying different combo's and less crowding. Maybe increase the temp a bit after a water change? Again, I am new to them, so maybe some others will add to the discussion that have been successful.

 

[regani]

Sometimes a larger water change, done when a low pressure system moves through, can trigger spawning.
I have also had the occasional success when lowering the water level by 50%, raising the temperature a bit, leaving it for a few days, then topping up with slightly cooler water (and setting the temp back to normal).

 

[krudolph]

What combinations work best for you? Male/female ratio and number of pairs in the same tank.....

 

[Tattooedfool83]

I had read that some breeders reduce water flow to almost nothing and this sparks breeding. I recently bought a male and female cac and they are in a 10 with a dual sponge filter. I reduces flow and then left town for 6 days. When I came home I did a 50% water change and as soon as u filled the tank up a cloud of fry just appeared. So far so good, the fry are probaly 7 days free swimming now possibly a little more as I'm not sure when they hatched. Getting big fast to

 

[regani]

I usually only keep a pair with a few pencil fish per tank, but my tanks only have a 2ft x 1ft footprint. Rule of thumb is 1 sqft per female and in addition to that about 2sqft per male with sufficient hiding places and decorations to break line of sight. that is my tanks could hold a maximum of two females and one male, but for most species I keep only one female.

 

[danbb]

I'll try the trick with low water and raising temperature, if that dose not work I'll let 1 male and 3-4 females in the tank. I don't think that numbers of fish is the problem, because in the past when I had other male, there was 7 apisto (2 males, 5 females) and 6 corydoras in the tank, and 3 females was spawning. I believe that the males are the problem, one of them just give up the camouflage and turned into a male recently. They tease each other, but none is yet a "dominant" male.

 

[Tattooedfool83]

I have my cacs at 80degrees and I had the water flow very little for about 6 days and they spawned. Still have at least 20 fry 10+days later

 

[danbb]

Congrats! How many fish are in the tank and what size is that? I'm thinking to keep 1 male and 3 females in the tank, another tank is coming next days for the rest.

 

[Tattooedfool83]

1 male 1 female, in a 10 gallon. I was gonna pick up a couple more females and I have 2-20longs that are about ready for fish so they were gonna get moved into there. I didn't expect breeding I more so reduced flow to try and see if they would pair up as they weren't bought as a pair. There are more fry then I can count, maybe 20-30. I saw the male eat a couple but I feed only live food to them as they are snobs and won't touch anything else and I think he confused the baby for food. He's since figured out the difference and will scoop up a baby and spit it back Into the pack. I'm thinking I might wait a couple weeks and move the adults and leave the fry once they are bigger.

 

[danbb]

You've been lucky. I try from couple of months and nothing yet, just some series of eggs with no result. What is your Ph and Kh?

 

[Tattooedfool83]

You've been lucky. I try from couple of months and nothing yet, just some series of eggs with no result. What is your Ph and Kh?

The ph is in the low 6s, I haven't checked it in awhile. And honestly no idea what the kh is. I'll check it and get back to you. I've read that the most successful spawns have low tds readings which baffles me as this tank is always around 230tds. My lfs has some juvie females that I'll probally pick up and try and get several spawns at once

 

[Tattooedfool83]

Ph is 6 and kh is 4
Tds is 236
I use Indian almond leaves in the tank to lower ph as my tap water comes out around 7.5 but when I do water changes I just pour tap water right in the tank. I don't even use any water conditioner anymore

 

[danbb]

I see, thanks. I never check my Tds... but there is one RO installation on the way, so it should be low soon as I use it.

 

[Tattooedfool83]

I see, thanks. I never check my Tds... but there is one RO installation on the way, so it should be low soon as I use it.

See that's what I'm confused about. I've read around 50 is good for breeding yet mines at what it is and I've got fry. Fluke maybe?! Or maybe these fish were conditioned to tolerate a higher reading. Idk. Is what it is. Let's see if after these fry they have more. That will be the real test

 

[danbb]

I say they will have more. I think that first time is the hard part. Sure they can tolerate more, especially that they are not wild fish, that's why I think that my problem is not the water, is maybe the number or this 2 males I got now.

 

[Tattooedfool83]

Split the males up, I have two male macmasteri that I'm looking for females for. I was gonna put there tanks length wise next to each other hoping they can see each other but seperate by glass

 

[krudolph]

Well, apparently the best way to have them breed is to not try ........I have been in the process of setting up a breeding tank and had originally purchased five double cacs. I had a heavily planted tank that was to hold them until it was ready. Well, I happened upon some colorful triples and they took the nicer heavily planted tank and the doubles went into a 15G holding tank which I just added some new driftwood, oak leafs and some sand until I could sell them. The wood was putting out too much tannin, so I yanked most of it out and cooked it. I put it in a separate bucket and never put them back in the tank. I was hoping to sell or trade the doubles with LFS this weekend and went to feed them this morning and....... I see three or four fry swimming (there may be more, but it is hard to see behind the piece of wood
) with a female. The rest of her tank mates (2m 2 females) are in the opposite end of the tank (I presume she is chasing them there). I have no idea what the PH, KH, GH or anything is the tank. I used RO water and the temp is upper 70's, but that was it. However, I am not optimistic they will survive in the smaller tank with the others. Now watch, in my breeding tank I will take care to get everything just right, and they will do nothing.