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Phosphate

strohl71

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
78
Location
Detroit Area, USA
Can I get some information on Phosphate in the planted aquarium? Most books seem to provide little or no information on the subject. Where does Phosphate come from? What are its effects on plants and fish? What levels are acceptable? Are water changes and phosphate pillows the only means of reducing Phosphate levels?

Thanks in advance.....
 

fishgeek

New Member
Messages
980
Location
london uk
phosphates are in most peoples water supply to some degree
there will also be some in food
water buffering agents/conditioners

they really need to be one of the limiting compounds in the water olumn as i defiitely associate them with algal blooms

i think ideally they should be negligible levels in the water

i cant think of any other ways to remove than what you hvae suggested

andrew
 

aspen

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,033
Location
toronto, canada
having thriving plants and low fishloads will run you into a situation of phosphate deficiency, which i consider to be good in a planted aquarium. usually this means the use of co2 to get the plants growing at an appropriate rate. if you've never used co2 in a planted tank, you should try it, even with a diy set-up and approprioate filtration to limit surface agitaton.

rick
 

farm41

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,191
Location
monroe, or
I add a pinch of monopotassium phosphate to my tanks weekly. Tanks are well lit and co2 injected.

I would only add to a very stable tank with lots of light and co2.
 

Xanathos

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
97
You can easily get rid of both phosphates and nitrates by growing floating plants like duck weed or amazon frogbits... They are litteraly nitrate pumps :D

Phil
 

strohl71

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
78
Location
Detroit Area, USA
Again, thanks for everybody's responses.

I purchased a phospate test kit and my water shows it to be around 2.0-2.5 ppm. My LFS told me that is too high. Are they correct?

My tank is heavily planted (sword plants, anubis, java fern, java moss, etc.) and I make sure to remove any dead or decaying stems or leaves. I do 25% water changes about every two weeks. If I unfortunately have any fish die, I always remove the body as soon as it is discovered (this is not a frequent occurence). I just started using a phospate removal pillow in my filter. Beyond this I am not sure how to lower the phospate levels.

Oh, and I also gravel vacuum accessible areas in the tank. This has become increasingly difficult, though, as the tank has become more heavily planted. It just gets to a point that you can't jam a vacuum tube into certain areas without risking damage to plants and their roots.

And lastly, even though I mentioned above that I always remove any dead fish right away, I did "lose" a small (1.5 inch) ancistris pleco some time back. It disappeared and I have been unable to locate it. It is either dead somewhere in the tank or it is doing a great job of hiding and just coming out at night. Somehow I expect the former. Still, how much phosphate could a dead little ancistris produce?
 

strohl71

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
78
Location
Detroit Area, USA
I only use store bought distilled water and then add Kent RO Right. I do not use my well water because it is poor for SA dwarf cichlids. I tested the pure distilled water and it has 0 phosphates.
 

mm12463

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
Location
Minneapolis, MN USA
2-2.5 can be depending on your plant load and tank. In a low light tank with no additional CO2 I would be worried. In a higher light tank with stable CO2 I would be fine with it as long as your plants are growing which most likely means that other nutrients they need are in the proper ratio.

I believe PO4 is chewed up by plants very quickly, faster then NO3. I've dosed 3 ppm after a water change in my 20g before with no algae blooms, but I had good light and CO2. The plants chewed through that with in a few days back down under 1 ppm.

I would say watch your tank. If you notice problems (algae starting, slow plant growth, etc) then something is not stable.

If you feeding lots of food I believe that will contribute to higher NO3 and PO4 as the uneaten amounts will decay and increase those levels.

In my experience high PO4 alone is not a cause of algae. Inbalanced nutrients are the cause. Excess nutrients or lack of one in relation to the others causes it. (NPK ratio)

At the same time if your PO4 is remain stable around 2-2.5 over several days something is the source or the plants are not using it. Are you seeing algae problems with levels in that range?

You mentioned you are doing gravel cleaning. Did you mean sucking deep into the substrate? That can release nutrients into the water column and cause some problem. Personally I only vaccuum the surface and never go into the gravel. I want the stuff down there to stay there, keep decaying and converting it into nutrients for the plants.

Are you currently fertilizing your tank? When you test are you doing it before, after, few days later, etc? Could also be you fertlizing is off. I've done that too until I realized my math was bad!

One thing I have learned - everyone's tank is different. What works for one person might not work for others. A stable tank is about the only thing that works for everyone. That's the challenge and can be a nightmare at times.

tjnelson44 - great link. Going to read more of it this week. Really interesting how they observed and tinkered to fix the problem.
 

tjudy

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,822
Location
Stoughton, WI
Some other sources of high phosphate are volcanic (lava) rocks and feeding a lot of high protein fish foods. Especially frozen foods that are not rinsed first.
 

LyreTail

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
87
2.0 ppm of phosphate is very high - I try to keep PO4 down to 1/2 mg/l and nitrate up at about 10 times that amount or 5 mg/l
 

aspen

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,033
Location
toronto, canada
i agree with lyretail. these numbers are good ideals.

water changes SHOULD reduce phosphate, it is easier than anything else. check your tap though. some phosphate numbers from the tap are ridiculous, well beyond 'acceptable limits'. if the phosphaye is coming from the tap, you're going to have to come up with better a solution.

rick
 

LyreTail

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
87
Yes - if the PO4 is coming from the tap, then you will have to get rid of it using cleaner water or those expensive phosphate removing filter aids like "Phoszorb " or "phosgaurd"

It could also be coming in with ferts or fish flakes as well - might want to try a different flake and check your ingredients on your ferts
 

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