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pancilfish (nannostomus eques)

scalarefan

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25
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Norway
:-\

9 of my 15 pencilfish has died.

PH = 6-7, temperature = 27-28 celcius, and nitritt level = below 0,3

They have been in a community tank together with some bolivian rams + a couple of ancistrus. Now I have moved the rest into a tank with some apistogramma uapesi and 1 ancistrus.

I'm wondering if they are reacting to salt? I've put in about one the-spoon of salt pr 50 litres of wather evry wathe change. I change water every week.
Could this be the problem?

Sissel
 

farm41

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monroe, or
Salt is not needed for the freshwater fish. I see you are showing some nitrite though, that should be your concern. How new is the tank?
 

scalarefan

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25
Location
Norway
Hi!

The tank is a few months old. The nitrite is less than 0,3 so I think that should be fine? 8O I can't get any lower than that on my scale...

I use aquarium salt as a mineral source (credozon) + to get rid of nasty snails :?

Sissel
 

Zapisto

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Montreal, QC, CANADA
you have a serious prob if you cannot get ride of the nitrit.
your test is bad or you have a problem in your filtration.


by the way , a lot of fish (american ) will dont like at all the 0.3 nitrit :roll:
 

Randall

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New Jersey, USA
Pencil Fish

Dear Sissel,

So sorry to learn of your loss. I, too, keep several Pencil fish species and find that they can be quite delicate.

With some of the more delicate fish species, prolonged exposure to even a trace amount of nitrite can prove fatal. Nitrite inhibits oxygen uptake in the gills by constricting capilaries. In essence, the fish die of suffication. After a couple of months or so, you should not have a positive nitrite reading unless something is wrong; over feeding, over stocking, insufficient filtration, etc. Perhaps you'd feel better if you invested in a nitrite test kit with a scale that starts a zero, rather than 0.3?

For soft water fish, adding salt is not necessary. Due to increased electoconductivity levels, it is not even recommended. If snails are a problem, perhaps you'd consider adding a loach or two? They're known to eat snails.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn
 

scalarefan

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5 Year Member
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25
Location
Norway
Thanx for good advice and help :D

i'll try to buy a better test-kit :? I knew they were sensitive, but I didn't think they were THAT sensitive... :cry:

I don't think over stocking is the problem - more likely
over-feeding :oops:
Should I try to change water more often? Each day, ore maybe each other day?

As to the snail-problem... the reason I haven't got loaches is because I'm trying to keep south amerikan fish only :roll:
And also I'm trying to get my a.uapesies to breed, and I've heard that loaches likes to eat eggs... :(

Hopefully my last 6 will live... They are really nice and quiet little fish :D
 

farm41

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I feed my apistos one time per day, except for the growout tanks, they get fed 2-3 times. Only what they can eat in 2 minutes.

Several water changes are in order to get the nitrite down and to rid of the salt. I would change 50% for 2 days and then monitor the nitrite, if it doesn't stay down, you will have to cut back on your feeding still.

What is your water change schedule?
 

Zapisto

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Montreal, QC, CANADA
i just realise something like that happen to my eques too few month ago.

can you tell me if you observ any symptom.
strange comportement before die.
 

2la

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Portland, Oregon, USA
scalarefan, can I clarify something with you? When you say your nitrite reading is <0.3ppm, does that mean that's the lowest reading on the scale? Is there a reading lower than that, such as 0ppm?
 

aspen

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toronto, canada
>>'9 of my 15 pencilfish has died.'

how long did this take? did they all die in 2 days after having them for 6 months or is this on-going?

salt will not rid your tank of snails. loaches will, and so will 'had-a-snail'. salt will not kill freshwater fish, but i find that after some time, they seem stressed by it. nannostamus eques may not actually show the stress before they die, but i am not too sure on that. how would you know? i would change out the salt.

the nitrite should be 0 in an established tank. if not, either you have had a filter problem, or the water you are adding may have some chloramine and you haven't neutralised it which may have disturbed your biological filtration. in any case, first test again and be sure, then remedy if necessary- very important. just because the pencils were the first to die (no surprise with a water problem really) they may not be the last. concentrate on any water issues before looking further.

if there is anything you are adding to the tank (ferts, eyc) list these, and also what you do to treat your water, and if your water shows ammonia before and after treating with de-chlor. (will show chloramine)

rick
 

scalarefan

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Norway
Hi again all :)

I'll try to answer all of the questions in turn.

Zapisto: I haven't observed any obvoious symptoms. Maybe they were a bit more "still". Hiding in a corner. But I'm not sure since 7 of them disappeared during my holiday :(

farm41: I feed them flakes every morning, and then artemia (or moscito-larvae) in the afternoon.
I change water every week (1/3).

2la: I live in Norway, so we may have a different scale here... :? My reading are <0,3 mg/l (I don't know what ppm stands for) :oops:
The tetra kit is made in Germany.
<0,3 mg/l is the lowest on my scale - the highest is 3,3 - 33 mg/l.

Aspen:The first 7 (out of 10) died during my 3 week summer holiday. During that time they didn't get any water changes. They were not fed the first week, then fed 3 times the second week, and then not the 3rd week). Since I bought the fish just a few days before leaving, I thougt this had everything to do with them all dying.
When I came home I bought 3 more to keep 6 in my tank. 2 of them died (I don't know if they were the "new" or "old" stock).
Now I bought 2 more (about 2 days ago) and they all look healthy and active. Eating well.

I've stopped using salt.

In Norway we are not incouraged to add anything to neutralise chloramine. It's not supposed to be neccesary.

I usually use:
Credozon (salt)
Ektozon - preventive medicine for aquarium fish.
 

2la

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196
Location
Portland, Oregon, USA
scalarefan said:
2la: I live in Norway, so we may have a different scale here... :? My reading are <0,3 mg/l (I don't know what ppm stands for) :oops:
The tetra kit is made in Germany.
<0,3 mg/l is the lowest on my scale - the highest is 3,3 - 33 mg/l.
That's what I suspected. We may be barking up the wrong tree with the nitrite issue. Many test kits report a "less than" figure as the lowest reading rather than a true zero reading.

Unexplained losses are sometimes attributable to internal parasites, particularly if these are wild-caught specimens and you notice they stop eating, become lethargic, and develop really thin bellies. Are you quarantining new purchases?

The other issue is chloramines. Can you double check with your local water supplier to be sure they don't add chloramines to your water?
 

scalarefan

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5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Norway
Hi!

& thanx

I'll check about chloramines... I know they add some, but not as much as further south in Europe (an USA). I can start using something called aquasafe in the "pencilfish-tank". This product is supposed to help :?

I don't quarantine my new fish - I know I should, but I never get around to do it :oops:

The 6 fish I have now are very active. Eating well and look quite fat.
Maybe the 10 first fish I bougt were all sick with something? (a parasite, maybe). The store I bought them from often import wild caught species (apistogramma, angels ++), but I don't know if these pencelfish are.

I'll keep you posted on the development :)
 

fishboy20

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Columbus
Just wondered how these guys were doing for you scalarefan? BTW the correct Scientific Name on these guys is Nannobrycon eques not Nannostomus like the other species of pencilfish. The is only one other species in Nannobrycon that I know of which is unifasciatus. They tend to be a lot more peaceful. I love the 7 I have in my 75 plant tank. They provide a lot of color and different movement on the top of the tank.
 

fishboy20

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Columbus
Weird I didn't know they had changed it. I would certainly see a revision is needed for that group of fish. I am not a scientist or anything but the N. eques, N. unifasciatus and N. espei (and maybe a few more species?) have more of the behavoir of swimming in the water more vertically like the headstanders do vs. N. beckfordi, N. trifasciatus, N. sp. coral red, etc. which swim more horizontally and seem much more aggressive IMO. Anyone agree, disagree? Just my experience that they more agressive group needs more room and are more outgoing.
 

2la

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Scientific nomenclature is, ironically, an imperfect science. It's a tough (if not arbitrary) call as to whether swimming position is a distinct enough character to separate the genus into two (BTW, N. espei swims perfectly horizontally). After, all, would you separate N. marginatus, which tends to school tightly, from N. mortenthaleri or N. beckfordi, which almost never school? I'm sure genetic analyses would help determine whether there's any correlation between the deviant behavior and their respective genomes, but I don't know that anyone's going to such lengths.
 

Cichlids1

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240
Location
Central Ohio
My experience with the pencifishes - buy 100 and the 40 - 60 that survive the intial die-off will be darn near bullet proof. Every species I've kept seems to have some difficulty acclimating. The weaker fish seem to be very weak and intolerant of any type of change. Whereas the healthier fish of the group are on the complete other side of the spectrum. They will survive and thrive. Unfortunately, I haven't found a method of identifying the weaker from the stronger until they are floating.
 

ancientaquarist

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Tucson. Arizona
Buying a large number of new fishes before vacation.

scalarefan-
i personally would never buy one new fish before i was leaving my home for three weeks. they could easily have come with a problem, especially if wild caught. only an experienced aquarist should handle quarantined fishes. only an experienced aquarist should feed fishes while their guardians are on holiday.

i would always add a new fish or new species when i could be there to supervise. i always tried to have things under superb auto control before I left. i prefer to feed heavily before leaving an established population and then let them go hungry for the two weeks. i am always terrified by someone else being responsible for my aquaria.

perhaps pencil fish are the canaries of aqualand and die from a chemical immediately thereby telling you you've got a problem. what can you do if that's the case and you aren't there?

central advice: don't add new fishes to a well functioning set up before
leaving on holiday for a variety of reasons. 1) they might be attacked by
one of the home owners 2) they might need to be evacuated after even a
single death 3) only you and a mentor can solve a major problem
4) there are so many tricks ONLY YOU can use to help them aclimate
5) besides new fishes are so exciting to watch during their period of establishment

just the advice of an
 

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