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ortegai sexing

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by gerbilshower, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    i recently got 4 ortegai. they have been in the tank now for 3 days. i was wondering, based on the photo's and my VERY minimal understanding/research - the male and female of this fish are relatively easy to discern. i purchased these 4 fish as 'pairs'. i was wondering if anyone who has experience with these fish might be able to better comment. again they have only been with me for 3 days and it is clear they are not yet fully acclimated.

    here is a photo of 1 of the fish. if i am being honest they all look extremely similar to this one.

    i will try to get photo's of all 4 shortly.

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  2. TCMontium

    TCMontium Member

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    I would say this fish isn't A. ortegai or A. cf. ortegai, the caudal spot on ortegai is like a square or rectangle or a not particularly shaped spot. This fish has a complete stripe from top to bottom. Caudal and dorsal fin patterns on ortegai are different too. As far as I have seen even when stressed, ortegai shows red and blue coloration on the whole head, above the lateral line and on the dorsal fin. I think your fish might be from regani-complex, but I might be wrong, there are way more experienced people here.
    The fish looks like a male from facial coloration and elongated pelvic fins with blue-yellow coloration on the tips.
  3. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    I agree that this is not ortegai or even something closely related to it, but it is from the regani lineage and it looks like a male to me. It could be a colour form of A. regani itself which has the very tall caudal spot but there are others such as A. sp. 'Masken'. Chances are Mike will chime in with a more definitive answer as I haven't seen any of those species in the flesh.
  4. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    I was kind of wondering if they were even ortegai myself just because of the lack of coloration between the dorsal fin and the lateral line. the additional comments have been very helpful. interesting either way. i got them from someone i believe to be reputable, a little frustrating. i am going to give them a few more days to acclimate before i make up my mind. haha
  5. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    The fish in the photo is A. paulmuelleri, aka A. sp. Masken and A. sp. Apache among others. If you can't separate the sexes by the color on the face, then they are all the same sex (males).
    dw1305 likes this.
  6. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    well that is frustrating. likely that i have 4 males of a fish i did not order.

    anything i need to know about Masken/Apache that may be different from other apisto?

    also, regarding sexing of them. female just has no red/blue in the face?
  7. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    these 2 fish are the only hope of being female. and im fairly confident the one on the left is a male. and...wow i thought the photo quality was a lot better than that when i uploaded...lol sorry.

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  8. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Like many other apistos, mature females show more rounded tips on the soft part of the dorsal and anal fins. They have black pigment on the front spines of the ventral fins. Juvenile males will show these features, too.
  9. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    Asked the supplier. After looking at the first fish that I linked above he claims that they are in fact Ortegai and that the fish pictured is in fact a female (again the first photo i linked is the one i sent). Would have hope he would know better or own up to it.
  10. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Sorry, but your supplier doesn't know apistos from elbows! He might have bought them as A. ortegai, but that is a male A. paulmuelleri. Note the narrow vertical caudal spot? This is typical for A. paulmuelleri (and some other regani-complex species). A. ortegai has a double 'caudal patch' that looks like a figure '8' turned on it's side. This is formed from a round caudal spot and the reduced Bar 7 that lightly touch. Take a look at some orgegai/Papagei/Melgar (sensu Römer) and you can see the obvious difference.
  11. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    Mike, I hope you don't think I am questioning you here. I completely agree that the fish is what you say it is. You simply have to understand the differences that you are pointing out and look at a good photo of either species. It should be a no brainer for someone who has been doing it as long as this guy supposedly had been.

    I am just documenting the hilarious back and forth between me and the guy. I sort of called him out, saying I am not looking for a refund but just want to let you know you sold me 4 male of a different fish when I paid for 2 male 2 female of Ortegai (papagey). He just sends back a scientific description of Ortegai and literally proves himself wrong if you simply look at the 2 photo's side by side.
  12. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    Well, I have a female after all...

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  13. gerbilshower

    gerbilshower New Member

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    looks like she may have spawned too. guarding her eggs vehemently. hopefully they were fertilized. exciting stuff!
  14. Hellfishguy

    Hellfishguy Member

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    My "ortegai" have also spawned. I was disappointed when I realized that my fish were A. paulmuelleri, but they've turned out to be very attractive in their own right. They're not at all shy & so far they've proven to be very good parents. DSCN2929.JPG DSCN2949.JPG
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