Old Fish and New Fish

[Cichlids1]

My South American fishroom is slowly migrating to West African. Recently added some Pelvicachromis humilis and Nanachromis spendens from Neil's brood. They are all eating, growing, and starting to color up. Today I just got in some wild fish labeled Nanochromis nudiceps. If you subscribe to the West African mailing list, you know how the distinction between nudiceps and parilus is going. Personally, I've only seen parilus and these look like parilus. But, I'm not a biologist. I only play one in my basement Looks like the last time they ate was before somebody swished a net through a stream in Zaire and pulled them out. The bellies are a bit sunken right now. Hopefully some good feeding will fix that. In a couple weeks, after fattening them up a bit, I hope to have some pictures some someone can help me sex them. I have an idea, but I'm not 100%.

As a side note. My dither fish of choice, Nannostomus harrisoni, are reproducing better than my cichlids. If anyone is looking for some decent dithers, drop me an email or PM and we'll see what we can work out.

Now...where can I find N. sp. "Zaire" for under $100 a pair...the quest continues


WooHoo!!! I think this is the 1000th post!!! This 'Little' forum has taken off. Wonder if I won anything by being the 1000th?

 

[Neil]

Cichlid1
How are the parilus?
Do you have the link to the West African List?
Keep your eyes open. We are almost to 1,500 posts. If you are the 1,500th, you really get a big prize. One unfungused discus egg!

 

[Cichlids1]

These nudiceps are defiantely bigger than any parilus I've seen. Not quite as colorful. If I ever get the algae scraped off their tank, I'll have to take a picture. I posted a question on the WA list before I got them. Mary Bailey responded back with basically "nobody knows for sure" if they are the same or different species.
You know the story on the splendens...extinct in the basement. But, the humilis are doing well. The females are probably getting close to 2" now. About half the size of the male.
Also, I'm out of the pike business again. Trying to get the pH down for the Notophthalmus and I crashed it. By the time I got it fixed it was too late. Male went first, female a couple days later. To help my get over my grief, I got a pair of Apisto. hongsloi "Red Stroke"
On another note, I found Lamprogulus congicum for sale on a certain Texas Afican Import Website. Anyone know anything about them. The look kinda tinanti like with a little nanochromis thrown in. Still a bit high priced for the current budget...but, if the price comes down and I can find anything out about them...


anyway...off to monitor posts and cycle a tank for what will soon be my discus egg!!! 8)

 

[Neil]

Have you got anymore insight into the nudiceps yet. The reason I posted "how are the parilus" was because of the widespread use of the term nudiceps refering to parilus. As far as I know, there have not been any true nudiceps in this country(or any other for that matter - except West Africa) for more than a decade. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have them, just that they have not been exported for years - Probably because of war in that region.
Are they less attractive than the parilus? As far as I know they don't have as much of the pastel color as the parilus.
Keep us updated. It would be very cool to have that fish around. Better breed it!!!
By the way, I am getting some Zaire reds in tom. Only 2 pair to work with for myself. I have been pretty lucky with Nanochromis and spawned them just about every time I have gotten ahold of them. So we will see.
Plus the splendens just came out with another spawn of free-swimmers. Finally!
Neil

 

[Cichlids1]

Their colors are more subtle that the parilus. Dark gray body with some irridescent pink, blue, and greens throughout the head and belly region. I have moved some to a 55g planted tank, hoping to give them a little more rooms and some security amongst the cover. If all goes well, I will be attemping some pics this weekend that I'll post on my site. These guys are much bigger than any parilus I remember having/seeing. Some of the larger ones will go 4" easy.

 

[Neil]

That sounds pretty promising!!! Can't wait to see some pics. Although, I am not sure that will help me ID them, as I have never seen a live specimen and only one pic in the past.
Neil

 

[Cichlids1]

2 hastily snapped pictures. Hopefully better ones will be on the way soon.

http://www.roundtownaquatics.com/images/nudiceps1.jpg
http://www.roundtownaquatics.com/images/nudiceps2.jpg

I'm going to show these around to a few people, see if there is a general concensus as to what exactly they may be.

 

[Neil]

They don't really look like your garden variety parilus. The one diagnostic element which I would suggest is what is in the Cichlids from West Africa book, which states that the caudal fin of the nudiceps differs from the parilus in the arrangement of spots forming VERTICAL rows. It is hard to tell from the pics. Are these spots present? That, in itself, is probably not enough to give you a clear picture, but it might get you closer.
I am floating the Zaire reds right now. If your nudiceps are that, then that would be quite a little collection of Nanochromis floating around here.
Parilus
Transvestitus
Nudiceps
Splendens
Zaire Reds
Never though that I would be talking about 5 species of Nanochromis in the same breath. I wish that I didn't kill the Kapou that I had a year or so ago.
Neil

 

[Cichlids1]

Ok..now I'm bummed. After reading L&S again, and looking closely at the book and my fish at the same time, I've sure I have the N. parilus as pictured on page 92. I could have sworn there were spots in the caudal, but as they matured, or as my observation got better, I no longer see the spots. The dorsal also has the banded bordering like a parilus. It would be much easier if I had the 2 species in a tank, side by side, to compare and contrast Oh well, the hunt for the true nudiceps continues...off to try and spawn parilus now.

 

[Neil]

Ken,
Any more progress on the whole nudiceps/parilus thing? Have you had a spawn from any?
I would be really interested in getting some of these now that I have gone hog-wild with the Nanochromis deal. I hope that you have luck with them.
Neil

 

[Randall]

West African List

Hey Guys,

What is the address to the West African list, please? I should really join.

Thanks!

Randall Kohn

 

[Cichlids1]

All of the feedback I recieved from "those in the know" pointed to parilus (both color varieties), except for the large male with the spots instead of the stripes. He, unfortunately, is not longer of this world. Out of the 20 wilds I originally brought in, he was the only unique one in the group. I only had 4 females in the bunch also. Swapped a couple pairs for some things, kept a couple pair for myself. I do have a pair setup in a tank with a pair of pelvicachromis. She is puffed up and has her tube down, but nothing to show so far. She killed one male, but has been well behaved with her current companion.


The westie email list (Very Dead at the moment): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/westafricans/

I was talking with Zack on the dimidiatus also. $100+ per pair always makes me cringe. I chickened out in the end. Figured I'd know a couple people who would end up with some and I could swing a deal for some F1 fry I also found a seller on Aquabid with the N. kinsangani, but never got any response to emails about them so I let them slide also (Another $100 pair of fish). Looks like some desireable stuff is finally making it's way to the States.

Ken

P.S. I call first dibs on Neil's dimidiatus fry!!

 

[Neil]

Ken,
The supposed distribution and collection locations of nudiceps and parilus (and splendens, which also has numerous similarities to them) overlap. In fact, IMO they consitute a species group within the Nanochromis genus (see my post in http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=346). This being the case, it is likely that these fish were originally derived from common ansestral thread. It wouldn't suprise me if these were 3 distinct species or if they were species-forms of an original nudiceps-type fish. Nudiceps was originally dicovered at the turn of the century and the other 2 species were discovered in the 70's, so I would assign the group name to nudiceps. But as to which species evolved first and from what combination of fish or factors, who knows? I would not be suprised, however, that fish that were readily available in the hobby 40 years ago as nudiceps, contained random individuals of the other species. This is all assumption. But, it is possible that nudiceps is either lost via the specific collection location being lost (or no longer accessable) or that it is dilluted sufficiently by crossing with other species that no originally described fish are easily recognizable.
What you have (in your first photo) may well be as close as it gets. Again, who knows. As far as the suggested group goes though, there are 2 distinguishable species that apparently have morphalogical similarities and (for the hobbyist) very desirable qualities.
OK, now I can come back to things that I actually really know a little bit about.
Neil