Novice to keeping the New World Cichlids

[wespastor]

Greetings:

I have been keeping planted tank for more than 20 years ... fishes they were/are just ferts

I am in sort of a quandary.

I wanted to expand on my fish keeping to the New World Cichlids. During my general search (I just looked at a bunch of pictures) of these fishes and saw two that I thought I might like to keep.
(Microgeophagus altispinosus) aka Bolivian Ram, Ruby Crown Cichlid or Apistogramma agassizi aka Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid, Biotodoma agassizi, Geophagus agassizi, Mesops agassizi

With the former Bolivian Ram Finding local sources became next to impossible when I found a source the price per fish became somewhat cost prohibitive at $10 ea and wanting to keep six of them I went for the latter Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid finding the cost per fish near half.

Here’s the rub.

The apisto’s in my LFSs are kept in the same tank without regard to species separation. (Selling something under the wrong name brings up a new problem. And I do realize that it happens occasionally by accident in some well meaning LFS but if it can be helped, it shouldn't be done. And this topic is a whole other discussion.)

Because I am admittedly a novice to keeping these fish I cannot at a glance tell the difference among them notwithstanding their coloring seems spectacular. I’m also looking to obtain juveniles so that I may be able to enjoy them for a longer period of time. It’s my understanding that these fishes lifespan is only about 2–3 years. Further, as juveniles and having 6 or so of them in the same tank I will more likely be able to get a pair (though I understand that a harem is more the norm.)

So in a nut shell, what’s a novice to do? There is only so much that can be learned from a book (forums). Buying online is dreadfully cost prohibitive because of shipping cost and I don’t even want to talk about the heat.

Thanks for your understanding and help.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Jonathan Aquari]

Go to another state( after buying kordon breather bags) and find diferent stoires, thats what I did when I went to visit my brothe In seattle (not saying you have to fly 6hours like I did( I live in maryland)) but I found my female cacatuoides orange flash and, a rare thing that I was not even looking , endler's livebearer

 

[wespastor]

Go to another state( after buying kordon breather bags) and find diferent stoires, thats what I did when I went to visit my brothe In seattle (not saying you have to fly 6hours like I did( I live in maryland)) but I found my female cacatuoides orange flash and, a rare thing that I was not even looking , endler's livebearer

Would be cheaper for me to just buy the BR's at $10 each at the LFS.

 

[wespastor]

Any better ideas???

I know thios was not in the original post and there is now way any of you could have known but being in a wheelchair creates some inconveniences/limitations.

While I might be able to travel I t would taje about six months just to plan to leave the state ... and the cost of r a wheelchair van is $99/day plus milage @ $1.49/mile ... now lets revisit the go to another state option??????

Thanks?

 

[Linus_Cello]

Is there a fish club you can join in your area (either a general aquarium club or one that specializes in cichlids? Here in DC we have both)? Maybe you'll meet some breeders who you can buy some cheap juvies and get advice? As you establish relationships with them, maybe they can deliver future offspring to your home?

 

[Mike Wise]

$10.00 seems a bit high for Bolivian Rams. I'd suggest looking at other stores. OTOH $10 for A. agassizii is about normal for many of the domestic strains, while wild-caught fish tend to be a little cheaper. Still, it's up to the purchaser what they consider a fair price. I'm sure you've paid good money for plants, that many fish keepers would think are too expensive. If you go with 6 Rams, I hope you have a fairly large tank, at least a 55. They also have a greater (but not excessive) tendency to dig in the substrate. Aggies will need about the same size tank, at least a 40 breeder for 6. If you went with only males, you might get away with a slightly smaller tank. You never said anything about the size of your tank.

 

[wespastor]

$10.00 seems a bit high for Bolivian Rams. I'd suggest looking at other stores. OTOH $10 for A. agassizii is about normal for many of the domestic strains, while wild-caught fish tend to be a little cheaper. Still, it's up to the purchaser what they consider a fair price. I'm sure you've paid good money for plants, that many fish keepers would think are too expensive. If you go with 6 Rams, I hope you have a fairly large tank, at least a 55. They also have a greater (but not excessive) tendency to dig in the substrate. Aggies will need about the same size tank, at least a 40 breeder for 6. If you went with only males, you might get away with a slightly smaller tank. You never said anything about the size of your tank.

Let's see over the last 20 years or so I have never paid more than $3.00 for a plant. And I usually buy in bulk at a dollar per plant which includes shipping. This last purchase a few months ago was from a distributor which went out of business and I bought almost all of his existing stock for $21.00 out the door. That was over 200 plants. The plants you see in the 30 Breeder are what came from that purchase and constitute about 40 plants.

The hobby can be expensive but it does not have to bee if one is frugal. I have 5 tanks going that have cost me less than $300 Total to set up than is not each that is for all five and one of them is a 125 gallon tank ... I bought the tank and the wrought iron base for $75.00 to give you an idea of my frugality.

As for the club I am a member of our local club ... no one breeds them. They have known for the last year that I have been on the look out for these fish ... So, are they helping me? I think not.

Maybe I will have to get the fish at $10 each.

Maybe I can get them in stages.

My last question was should I get the BR's in stages will I have territorial issues with the fist ones in the tank. I know that those can be broken by a tank rebuild of sorts but I am not interested in doing that.

Thanks for the in put.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Mike Wise]

Personally, I'd add them as young fish all at once and let them settle the 'pecking order' - and remove any that don't establish a territory.

 

[wespastor]

Personally, I'd add them as young fish all at once and let them settle the 'pecking order' - and remove any that don't establish a territory.

That's why I wanted six at the same time in the first place.

 

[wespastor]

Here’s an analogy of a question and there answers posted on forums:

OP: What the price of rice in China?

Answer 1: you don’t want to go to China they are at war right now.

Answer 2 referring to answer 1: There are wars all over the world right now … your best bet is to stay at home.

Answer 3: I find world travel relatively safe … just stay away from war zones.

OP: What does all tave to do with the price of rice in china?

 

[wespastor]

Some answers on another formum are pretty good I could expand my search radii for a LFS phone calls are free for me. It's just getting the information.

I live in Cleveland so an hour or so our of town isn't too bad considering transport cost for one in a wheelchair. it not like I can just jump in a car and go.

To the East the limit would be Painsville, OH; To the South would be Akron/Canton, OH; to the West would be Elyria, OH.

If anyone know of local fish stores in or within these bounds let me know Ithere are a few I already know of and have contacted but let me know of any you know of.

Thanks again for your help.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[wespastor]

No Help yet?

Well FWIW My efforts in this department seem to have panned out. I fouind a LFS that might be able to aquire the BR's in a couple of weeks.

On another note I still need to obtain Leaf litter I have a posting on CL in Cleveland, OH.

Thanks for all the help and advice ... it has been great.

I will resume this tread in another listing more appropriate to BR's.

Thanks again.

Best wishes,
Wes