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New species: A. sp. "Diamond Face"?

Rolo

Active Member
5 Year Member
Hi,

Mimbon Aquarium in Cologne (Germany) importes a few specimen of a new Apistogramma species from Rio Jutai, a southern tributary of the Solimoes in Brazil. They call it Apistogramma spec. "Diamond Face".

Pictures are available on the Mimbon Homepage

The habitus reminds on A. barlowi

It also reminds me to the once in 2007 imported species A. sp. "Kelleri"...but the two-tip caudal fin is missing.

What do you think?

best regards,
Rolo
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
I think that you're right, Rolo. I saw photos of a less colorful male earlier this month. I think that it is closely related to A. sp. Kelleri from Colombia (Leticia), a member of the barlow-complex. I would be interested to see if the females develop a lyretail. The species came in with a strange cacatuoides-group species from the same system. Grab them if you can because these were collected by Peruvian collectors and smuggled :eek: out of Brazil along with about 10,000 arowana. I don't think that it'll be a regular import.
 

dfea

Member
5 Year Member
WOW that must be why I am seeing arowana in every LFS I walk into these days.

Sorry off topic - Dan
 

peterK

Member
5 Year Member
Hi guys,
They also reminds me A. sp. Kelleri, there's no doubt they are from the same complex. But the interesting is, that so similar fish (especially males of both - or three - species) are from quite different areas. Another fact which is interesting to me: what about A. sp. Kelleri? They appeared and no experiences I have read in the net. Are they mouthbrooders, too?
 

Microman

Member
5 Year Member
Im pleased Rolo posted this pic of the Mimbon fish.... This species seems to be very variable in terms of red facial markings. Only 1 male from 5 that i recently picked up whilst in Peru (from the same collector/Rio Jutai import)showed these very red markings and he is no longer with us, very well preserved though.....
The pics below(Taken by TomC whilst in Peru) do however show the double tipped caudal on the male. I also have an older female that clearly shows an orange tipped lyretail that is not visible on the younger and rather sick looking female below. Will get pic of my female ASAP.
The name A.sp."Diamond Face" is a name Mimbon Aquarium have put on the fish rather than the Peruvian exporter.

Hi guys,
what about A. sp. Kelleri? They appeared and no experiences I have read in the net. Are they mouthbrooders, too?
Theres no breeding info out there Peter.... As i understand it he fish collected/imported into Holland unfortunately died.
Mark.


 

Mark

Member
5 Year Member
I will get some this week. Can you tell me some waterconditions and habitat these fish would like? I heard that this river is not as extreme as others can be.

Mark
 

Microman

Member
5 Year Member
A few pics of one of my older sub adult females showing the development of orange tipped lyretail(Im sure its not a mirage Tom!!!). Is this enough to confirm that this species may indeed be A.sp.Kelleri bearing in mind that right side tributaries of the middle/lower Rio Jutai are not that far(120km or so)from Leticia although on the other side of the Amazon.
Mark...




 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Another fact which is interesting to me: what about A. sp. Kelleri? They appeared and no experiences I have read in the net. Are they mouthbrooders, too?
The original fish didn't survive long enough to breed. TomC, Julio Melgar and I went to Colombia last year to find A. sp. Kelleri. This part of Colombia is "interesting" to say the least. For example, we traveled out of Leticia along the highway to the airport. Along the way we saw national polices in full combat gear with automatic weapons at the side of the road every 100 meters or so. They weren't smiling! :eek: While collecting fish, a group of a half dozen young men walked by us on a side road. On the way back to town we saw them again - with wrists, elbows, and legs tied behind their backs, blindfolds and in a ditch. The police had automatic weapons trained on them. Anyway, we got to the site where Keller originally collected the fish. The nice lady who lived next to the stream told us that it once had fish with red and blue on the face. The stream had dried out completely earlier in the year. All of the fish had died. None of these fish returned. I did see a pair of Laetacara flavilabris with a large brood in the stream, but no apistos. We looked in nearby areas, but didn't find them anywhere. I imagine that they are still there somewhere if you are willing to look farther afield.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Mark, after looking at your female, I would say that it is A. sp. Kelleri or something very close to it. I have it listed as A. cf. sp. Kelleri on my personal list.
 

peterK

Member
5 Year Member
Mark, great fish you have there.
As we see, the lyra-tail in this species' females isn't as much developed as in A. pantalone or A. martini. Is that the only one species of similar to Nijsseni-Complex fish found not in Peru? I don't remember that any such strong-built Apistos are found there.
By the way, Colombian trips are always "thirlling" - I have read several reports of them (by different aquarists) - and some facts are not very encouraging to visit this country.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Kelleri and Diamond Face appear closely related to A. barlowi. I put them all in the atahualpa species-group. A. atahualpa, huascar, cf. huascar (Aleman), barlowi, and Kelleri/Diamond Face are all found in northern Peru and neighboring areas in Colombia & Brazil. This area seems to correspond to the southern shoreline of the paleo-Lago Pebas, a remnant of the the Pebasian Sea. Once the sea retreated northward, it appears that a depression in this area filled with a freshwater lake. The fish of the species-group might have followed the shoreline.
 

peterK

Member
5 Year Member
Wow, that explains a lot. Similarity of "Diamond Face" and "Kelleri" to A. barlowi makes me wondering if they are mouthbrooders...
 

RAF

Member
5 Year Member
I'm not sure, bur I think Tom C had the same suspect about some mouth brooding behaviour of the Ap. atahualpa.
 

Rolo

Active Member
5 Year Member
Hi,

This species seems to be very variable in terms of red facial markings. Only 1 male from 5 that i recently picked up whilst in Peru (from the same collector/Rio Jutai import)showed these very red markings and he is no longer with us, very well preserved though.....
The pics below(Taken by TomC whilst in Peru) do however show the double tipped caudal on the male. I also have an older female that clearly shows an orange tipped lyretail that is not visible on the younger and rather sick looking female below. Will get pic of my female ASAP.
The name A.sp."Diamond Face" is a name Mimbon Aquarium have put on the fish rather than the Peruvian exporter.
Hmm... interesting.
Could it be possible, that the peruvian exporter mixed up the Rio Jutai specimen with A. barlowi? The fish on the pictures look more like A. barlowi than like A. sp. Diamond Face. Even the female show the typical black breast-band, which female A. sp. Diamond Face likely doesn't have, as far as I saw on the few pictures?
I try to get some fishes from Mimbon at the moment, but I don't want to pay so much money for "normal" A. barlowi, especially since I still have some A. barlowi at home.

regards,
Rolo
 

Microman

Member
5 Year Member
Hi,
Hmm... interesting.
Could it be possible, that the peruvian exporter mixed up the Rio Jutai specimen with A. barlowi? The fish on the pictures look more like A. barlowi than like A. sp. Diamond Face. Even the female show the typical black breast-band, which female A. sp. Diamond Face likely doesn't have, as far as I saw on the few pictures?
I try to get some fishes from Mimbon at the moment, but I don't want to pay so much money for "normal" A. barlowi, especially since I still have some A. barlowi at home.
regards,
Rolo
Rolo, I can assure you that these fish are not A.barlowi and the fish were not mixed with A barlowi at the Peruvian exporters.
Whilst in Peru TomC and myself were at the exporters (Who is a friend) and the fish (Only 100 pairs) were placed in 3 tanks away from all the other Apistos.
The females do in fact show a very slight breast band but not as pronounced as those on A barlowi. Caudal pattern in males is different also....
Mark...
 

cageman

New Member
5 Year Member
Aha, right. There is a topic on these fish :)

Here are some photo's I took of mine.




Mark was here this evening to pick up his two pairs.
I find it a very interesting species, if I may say so.

And here are the infamous A. sp. Kelleri
With permission of Johan Egberts, who has the copyright.

 

cageman

New Member
5 Year Member
When the male threathens, he shows the same black lips and cheeck as A. barlowi does.
 

ernstvangenne

New Member
5 Year Member
A. kelleri

Hello Mike, I saw you'r article about Letitia, we go in Januar, did you go with a local fisherman/guide to that place, with local people the soldiers were very friendly to us. Letitia is the (almost) savest place to be :biggrin:in Colombia.
Who knows we find some, we have a local indian guide if you have some tips please let me know.:)
ernst van genne
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Ernst, we hired a Peruvian collector from Santa Rosa who collected often in Colombia. I agree with you about the city of Leticia. It is safe with all of the police around. We were warned several times about the lack of police (and safety) in Tabatinga (Brazil), but we had no problems at all. I think that the danger is greater when you leave Leticia and the airport area. Where there are fish collecting sites, there are fewer police and less safety. They never gave us (crazy Gringos!) any problems.
 

ernstvangenne

New Member
5 Year Member
Hello Mike, Our guide lives at about km. 14, I have a good hope,(is that english??:redface:) because he catched them 3 years ago, close to his "house" (those words are more then his home), his name is Elisban, he loves to go with Gringo's because he has no work, so his family can make a little bit money. We helped him at that time with some money so he is very proud that he can do something back to us. A good start to make an'expedition.
 
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