New here!

[FishFan]

Hello! I am setting up a 20 gallon long (walstad) and have been doing a tun of research. I think Apistos would be perfect! Thay have been on my bucket list for a while, and want to give them a prefect place to live! I thought this community would be a great place to learn! Any tips?

 

[MacZ]

Walstad tanks, if done right, are actually not good for Apistogramma. The water is too hard on average, the access to sand and mulm to chew is often hindered by plants and some other factors are subpar, too.
At most I'd put in a single A. borellii. And that only with caution and a backup plan.

Most other Apistogramma species would require a tank tailored to their needs.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome!

 

[FishFan]

Walstad tanks, if done right, are actually not good for Apistogramma. The water is too hard on average, the access to sand and mulm to chew is often hindered by plants and some other factors are subpar, too.
At most I'd put in a single A. borellii. And that only with caution and a backup plan.

Most other Apistogramma species would require a tank tailored to their needs.

Oh, thank you! I could never find real clarity about that. What would your perfect Apistogramma tank look like (looking for new ideas) .

 

[MacZ]

As described here over and over:
- Dimensions: at least 80x30x40cm
- Substrate: fine sand
- Hardscape: wood (structure is important for territorial fish like Apistogramma), barely any rocks, lots of leaf litter and botanicals
- Plants: Easy ones. floaters, semi-aquatic or fully emersed just with the roots in the water
- Water: RO with humic substances (aka "tannins")

 

[FishFan]

Thank you!!

 

[Mike Wise]

I think MacZ gave you the "ideal" set-up, but for apistos. I doubt that any tank that doesn't require regular tank maintenance (read especially water changes) is not suitable for any fish no matter what kind of filtration method one uses. Aquariums are not natural. They are an enclosed environment just like a submarine or space station. Regular maintenance is a requirement. Of course any living organism can survive for long periods in less-than-optimal conditions, but it isn't "ideal". But eventually toxins in the closed environment build up until it is unlivable. A nicely planted tank with some kind of active biological filtration and proper water management, depending on the species, will work for any apisto. It won't be ideal - or natural - but will work.

 

[FishFan]

I think MacZ gave you the "ideal" set-up, but for apistos. I doubt that any tank that doesn't require regular tank maintenance (read especially water changes) is not suitable for any fish no matter what kind of filtration method one uses. Aquariums are not natural. They are an enclosed environment just like a submarine or space station. Regular maintenance is a requirement. Of course any living organism can survive for long periods in less-than-optimal conditions, but it isn't "ideal". But eventually toxins in the closed environment build up until it is unlivable. A nicely planted tank with some kind of active biological filtration and proper water management, depending on the species, will work for any apisto. It won't be ideal - or natural - but will work.

Thank you for clearing that up! What time of filtration system do you suggest?

 

[Apistonaut]

Hello! I am setting up a 20 gallon long (walstad) and have been doing a tun of research. I think Apistos would be perfect! Thay have been on my bucket list for a while, and want to give them a prefect place to live! I thought this community would be a great place to learn! Any tips?

Welcome! I'm rather new as well.

I've done Walstads and dirted tanks and in theory they are very wholesome little environments. They work.

The problem is they don't excel at providing a particularly healthy environment for most fish. All but the smallest of hardy Asian fish will struggle to thrive when you compare them to a traditional filter + maintenance tank. Surely an Apistogramma will survive, but there just isn't enough evacuation of waste and the lifespan of softwater fish will be shortened. There is an immense amount of microbial contaminants that can't be processed like they are in nature, as well. This goes for dirted tanks and the "Father Fish" method.

I know exactly where you are coming from and you want the best for your pets, and that led you to Walstad. I would certainly go a more traditional filtered route if you plan to keep South American or African fish! : )

Keep in mind I have not kept any socially/large complex fish like Apistogramma in a Walstad, so my experience ends there.

 

[FishFan]

Welcome! I'm rather new as well.

I've done Walstads and dirted tanks and in theory they are very wholesome little environments. They work.

The problem is they don't excel at providing a particularly healthy environment for most fish. All but the smallest of hardy Asian fish will struggle to thrive when you compare them to a traditional filter + maintenance tank. Surely an Apistogramma will survive, but there just isn't enough evacuation of waste and the lifespan of softwater fish will be shortened. There is an immense amount of microbial contaminants that can't be processed like they are in nature, as well. This goes for dirted tanks and the "Father Fish" method.

I know exactly where you are coming from and you want the best for your pets, and that led you to Walstad. I would certainly go a more traditional filtered route if you plan to keep South American or African fish! : )

Keep in mind I have not kept any socially/large complex fish like Apistogramma in a Walstad, so my experience ends there.

Again, thank you so much for helping me understand. I feel like I have watched about a 1,000,000 videos, but none of them seem to explain the real problems in different types of aquarium. I have been doing standard aquariums for about 5 years, and wanted to try something new. This has been vary helpful!!

 

[Apistonaut]

Again, thank you so much for helping me understand. I feel like I have watched about a 1,000,000 videos, but none of them seem to explain the real problems in different types of aquarium. I have been doing standard aquariums for about 5 years, and wanted to try something new. This has been vary helpful!!

Don’t be afraid of dirt, however. Not the best option for soft water fish like Apistogramma, but dirted tanks have their benefits. I wouldn’t plan on maintainance free, though. Filters aren’t a sin.

They work for Diana and Father Fish because most aquarium fish are hardy. But just because you can, doesn’t mean you should! : )

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I feel like I have watched about a 1,000,000 videos, but none of them seem to explain the real problems in different types of aquarium.

What the others have said really. A filter and some water changes. I like a <"low nutrient, sand substrate">, but then I leave it pretty much undisturbed.

Have a look at @apistobob 's web site <"https://dwarfcichlid.com/apistogramma-and-dwarf-cichlid-aquarium-care/">

I've also a great <"structural leaf litter fan">. Have a look at the <"Duckweed Index"> it is applicable to ~all fish keeping, but I started using it <"with Apistogramma spp">.

I've got a <"huge amount of time for Diana Walstad">, but she has revised her views on water changes and water movement subsequent to the original publishing of "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" (I haven't seen the recent 4th edition).

What type of filtration system do you suggest?

An exposed sponge surface, it can either be the intake of a HOB or canister filter, <"connected to a powerhead"> or used with a traditional air pump. If I was starting from scratch? I'd probably go down the <"Eck Mattenfilter"> and <"Czech air-lifter route">.

cheers Darrel

 

[MacZ]

I think MacZ gave you the "ideal" set-up, but for apistos.

After all I was asked for the "perfect" setup in my opinion.

 

[MacZ]

I've got a <"huge amount of time for Diana Walstad">, but she has revised her views on water changes and water movement subsequent to the original publishing of "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" (I haven't seen the recent 4th edition).

She had to take back several statements that people like "Father Fish" and his German pendant Mr. Mundt have taken as a support for their methods in the past.* Of course they hush about the revisions.
Bottom line: A near self-sufficient tank is hardly feasable if vertebrates are supposed to move in and you will always have to add nutrients and energie after an amount of time. Of course, the bigger the tank the easier it gets but also the crash will then be harder.

* And my bottom line on them: Their method works for their kind of setups but the adamant insistence that their methods are universally applicable and their cult-like followings just turn me off.

 

[Apistonaut]

She had to take back several statements that people like "Father Fish" and his German pendant Mr. Mundt have taken as a support for their methods in the past.* Of course they hush about the revisions.
Bottom line: A near self-sufficient tank is hardly feasable if vertebrates are supposed to move in and you will always have to add nutrients and energie after an amount of time. Of course, the bigger the tank the easier it gets but also the crash will then be harder.

* And my bottom line on them: Their method works for their kind of setups but the adamant insistence that their methods are universally applicable and their cult-like followings just turn me off.

Walstad and dirted tanks are wonderful father-son projects, but I did find that the cult following of doing everything by the book 100%, down to the brand and SKU of miracle grow soil was disturbing.

I think they are wonderful for Neocaradinia shrimp. Their usefulness ends there when compared to even a tiny amount of effort towards water changes in a traditional setup.

I enjoyed my 2 and had a lot of success. Wouldn't bother putting anything in it except asian nano fish and smaller labyrinth fish.

 

[FishFan]

Ok, just making sure I understand. You’re saying that the walstad method works if you do miner water changes (plus filter?). If you want to put anything more than plants in, you wouldn’t suggest anything with specific needs (like Apistogrammas) and lean more into Neocaradinia shrimp. Am I missing anything?

​

 

[Apistonaut]

Ok, just making sure I understand. You’re saying that the walstad method works if you do miner water changes (plus filter?). If you want to put anything more than plants in, you wouldn’t suggest anything with specific needs (like Apistogrammas) and lean more into Neocaradinia shrimp. Am I missing anything?

​

No, I'm sorry. There's a misunderstanding. I think the aforementioned advice by @MacZ is the most appropriate.

The Walstad method with water changes and a filter isn't the Walstad method. It's just a normal tank with dirt/soil. This is better suited for most fish than Walstad alone, but still wouldn't be that great for Apistogramma because of their native lean and soft waters. Soils leach much too many nonsense in a tank for soft water fish. I overexplained a non-existent scenario and that wasn't very concise of me to do.

 

[FishFan]

Ok, Thank you for clarifying.