1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Nanochromis teugelsi vs splendens

Discussion in 'African Cichlid Identification' started by Gabriel, May 11, 2011.

  1. Gabriel

    Gabriel New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I've got these fish in a shop here in Belgium that imported them from RDC (Congo/Kinshasa) in september 2009

    I've no valid information about catch place!

    These fish were only called Nanochromis sp. but after showing some pictures of them on french speaking forum we "decided" to call them Nanochromis teugelsi.

    Nevertheless, some month ago I read again Anton lamboj's book and then I begin to hesitate, and finally I wonder if my fish are not nanochromis splendens...

    I'll post here plenty of photos so I hope that you will be able to help me!!!

    In the shop when they just arrived

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    at home some month later

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    wild male

    [​IMG]

    The wild pair still spawning till now...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    One thing among other that made me think I have splendens is that in my 1st generation raised in aquarium they were a lot af females without any spot in the caudal fin. The 2 wild females a had had only 1 spot (so had the other wild female in the shop)

    I have never seen females with 2 spots...

    I can read, regarding splendens (...) none or 1 spot in the caudal (...) and for the teugelsi (...) 1 to 2 spots (...)

    I don't know if this criteria is relevant.

    Thanks for reading and halping if it can!
  2. gerald

    gerald Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    627
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd say N.teugelsi: black marks in dorsal and/or top of caudal fin, gold cheeks, and more orange around the lips than N.parilus/splendens would have. Mine came from a 2008 importation (via Eric Bodrock) and lack the vertical rows of spots in the lower half of tail that some of yours have (photos 1, 2 and 4). Lamboj & Schelly's description says the the tail pattern and black spots can be present or absent. Your breeding pair is gorgeous and I hope you succeed raising lots of young. Very few people in USA have them. [​IMG][/url][/IMG] [​IMG][/url][/IMG]
  3. Gabriel

    Gabriel New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    so what is the conclusion of what you've written...

    Yours look a lot different from mine!!! It makes me think a little bit more that mine are splendens... never had any female with black on tail...

    An other hypothesis would be that N. splendens and N. teugelsi are 2 morph from the same species!!! I've nevre seen any statistical study on genes about these 2 species to determine if they are genetically separed???

    Perhaps it exists some intermediate morphs???
  4. gerald

    gerald Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    627
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lamboj & Schelly didn't address genetics, just morphology and color. The distinctions between teugelsi versus splendens and parilus are in the extent of scales on the opercle, number of gill rakers, and coloration. Their article has live photos of the holotope plus four other specimens that vary widely in caudal fin pattern and presence or absence of black fin spots. Send me your email in a PM and I can send you a PDF scan of their article. Their reported range for teugelsi is huge: along the Congo River from Lac Tumba downstream to Kinshasa, and in the Kasai River and its tributaries Kwenge and Lulua rivers. So maybe it really is just a color variety of splendens or parilus, but apparently it's NOT a localized variant. Anyway, your fish seem to fit the teugelsi color description; I think yours are the same as my fish.
  5. Gabriel

    Gabriel New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thanks a lot, but I have this article...

    So ok I understand that you think they are teugelsi!
  6. tjudy

    tjudy Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I am not convinced that they are N. tuegelsi, but I am not sure what they would be otherwise. I will research it a bit. That spot in the female dorsal is interesting. I wish you had picks of several females for to see if it is consistent.
  7. aquaticclarity

    aquaticclarity Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The female in your pictures screams tuegelsi! The male on the other hand looks a little different-I'll take another few looks at the pictures though.

    I've had females (and the odd male-1 or 2 F1 fish) have that black spot in the dorsal and just as many females that don't have it. And that's in both wild and F1 fish. Out of 20 or so wild pair of tuegelesi about ¾ of the females had the black dorsal spot.

    Most male tuegelsi have the standard tail pattern but every once and a while you will find one with the extra bars in the lower half of the tail. Very much like N. parilus. I like to call the males with the more decorative tail "super" parilus or teugelsi as a distinction from the standard tail pattern.

    I’ve wondered myself if the “super” parilus isn’t what was described as N. splendens by Roberts & Stewart in 1976…the same year they described parilus and I’d guess from fish collected on the same trip.
  8. aquaticclarity

    aquaticclarity Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The males also look like tuegelsi after blowing up the pictures.
  9. tjudy

    tjudy Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I agree... tuegelsi
  10. Gabriel

    Gabriel New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts about these fishes.

    Indeed the pattern in the tail can be quite different from each other.

    Here is a pic of a young F1 male that shows blue spots in the lower part of tail little in dorsal and anal fin too. Their wild father doesn't have this blue color at all.

    [​IMG]
  11. slimbolen99

    slimbolen99 Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The dorsal spot seems spot on. Pun intended. I don't remember there being that much yellow and red in the fins, but I'm not identifying expert either.

    Here are some pics of my breeding pair of tegeulsi that has since passed away. :( Maybe these will help?

    My male (blurry shots, but you get the idea)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    My female
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  12. gerald

    gerald Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    627
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are there any teugelsi males that have the barred pattern in lower half of tail AND black spots in the dorsal? From the small number I've seen in pics (and even fewer in person), those with barred tail ("super") do not have the black spots. And some males have neither. Of the original 4 teugelsi (siblings) I got from Bodrock, 2 males and 1 female had black spots, and 1 female did not. None had the barred tail pattern.

Share This Page