Nano reef

[DigitalBoy]

Does anyone have any experience with setting up a nano-reef?

 

[Neil]

Now we are into a subject that I have a serious bug for. I currently have an 18g. and a 30g. I am not an expert in this area, but I could probly offer some assistance. We also have, at least, one other member here that can give good directions in reef tanks - Graham.
How small are you thinking? And what are you planning to keep?
Neil

 

[DigitalBoy]

Ok

I am planning to have a 10 gallon nano-reef. I am hoping to convert my freshwater 10 gallon, because I get hair algae in it and can't really get rid of it. From what I've learnt nano reef if properly set up could be pretty low maintenance and still stable.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Planning to keep

I am planning to have the following setup: 10 pounds of live rock, 5 pounds of base rock, 10 hermits and 10 snails and a clarky clown fish. Does that sound reasonable?
Thanks.

 

[cmoreash]

Hey, I am setting up a 29 gallon reef tank, a bit too large to be considered a nano i guess. http://www.nano-reef.com This site is the best site i have found for nano reef info. The Forums are very informative, and friendly. When are you setting yours up? I am going away for the summer, so I have to wait until I return to set up mine. Good luck, Dmitriy!

 

[Neil]

That sounds fine for a start. Let me give you a few other things to consider.
I am a big fan of DSB (deep sand beds) It basically is a layer of sugar fine sand that at 4" or so acts as a denitrifying element in the tank. Some would argue that a nano is too small to derive that benefit, but I have had good results in my 18, which is the same footprint as the 10. This means better water quality required for any corals you might be keeping. If you go with a DSB, you will want to seed it and/or get a sand crew to keep it managed. This is a different batch of micro critters (and specific snails) than the typical clean-up crew. They can be purchased as detritivore or fauna kits or gotten from good live sand from someone elses tank. My tanks a beaming with life, both in the sand and on the rocks. Mini-brittle stars and bristle worms are especially interesting and reproduce like crazy!
The inverts and fish you are intending sound fine, but be aware that some crabs, although good scavangers, tend to kill snails for their shells or just for fun. Red-legged hermits seem to be the best in that regard.
Lighting is also an important issue and should be chosen in response to the types of corals that you will be keeping. I would think it important to have reasonable lighting, even if you are to keep soft coral, because I like coraline algae growing. And that typically means good lighting , higher alk, and good levels of calcium.
And finally, a protien skimmer would be another element that would reduce you water change schedule, just as a DSB will.
There's a starting point for research. If you have more questions about these or anything else, I would be happy to try and feild them.
Neil

 

[DigitalBoy]

Here's more

Ok. Here's more detailed information and what I am planning on doing.
Deep sand bed sounds like a great idea, a friend of mine is doing that as well, however this will take up more than half of the aquarium. I currently have a 10 gallon aquarium with a glass top, I have not yet started buying stuff, so at this point I can easily choose a bigger one if it makes sense.

My major concern is: steady environment and relatively low maintenance.

I was planning to reuse my mini penguin with bio-wheel, buy 2 powerheads and use a PC15232-ABS system from Custom Sealife with 64 watts.

Any ideas?

 

[cmoreash]

sounds cool, just cycle with the live rock, and monitor the parameters. As I said earlier, http://www.nano-reef.com is VERY good for this kind of stuff, i learned a ton from them. Good luck, sounds fun! I can't wait to set up my 29, I am ordering the light soon.

 

[Eva32181]

My LFS has an Eclipse system nano-reef sitting on their countertop. It has a Malu anemone and a tomato clown fish, which form a cool symbiotic relationship - the guy who takes care of it showed me how the clownfish actually feeds the anemone by putting a big chunk of fish right in the anemone's mouth - very cool. I think Malu anemones are more hardy than most. Send us pictures of your tank when you get it set up!

 

[DigitalBoy]

This has been a pretty exciting topic.

I've been thinking, and it looks like there will be no actual converting of the tank - for saltwater you need to buy so much that it offsets the cost of the existing tank and top.
I wonder, what an ideal small salt-water setup would be?

 

[Neil]

DigitalBoy,
I hope you end up doing it. They are very addictive, but a little expensive. However, there are ways to cut the corners of the cost.

My major concern is: steady environment and relatively low maintenance.

If you want to decrease the amount of maint. then i definitely recommend a DSB. No vaccing - clean-up done by sand-bed fauna (cool little critters). And a natural way to reduce the nitrates for the all-important corals. Water changes are reduced to a min. (unlike Dwarf Cichlid keeping) because the filtration is all done naturally within the tank via the live rock and sand. The only filter I have on my two tanks are protien skimmers, which you just have to empty once every couple of days.

I was planning to reuse my mini penguin with bio-wheel, buy 2 powerheads and use a PC15232-ABS system from Custom Sealife with 64 watts.

The biowheel is unneeded and will just add to the nitrate build up of the system. A power head for water movement is all that you will need.
That lighting will be more than adequate, but you can get compact flour. retro kits to mount in a home-made canopy that will cost less. Some people are using power compacts(PC) from Home Depot that have the appropriate spectrum and are very happy with the results. I built my own canopy for about $15 and then bought a 32w PC retro from the LFS for about $50. Sice I upgraded to a 18g. Seahorse tank from a 10g. soft coral tank, that lighting is fine.

I think all that you need is your tank(forget the glass top if you do the canopy), a powerhead, a protien skimmer (Lees is probably fine), lighting, sand 4" sugarfine, and the rock (15lbs is fine). There is a lot you can do with a tank like this and it shouldn't break the bank!



[/quote]

 

[DigitalBoy]

biowheel

Thanks for the reply. Really informative. But how would biowheel add nitrate to the system, I thought the nutrification bacteria would actually get lower its quantity.

 

[Neil]

DigitalBoy,
The bio wheel is in essence a wet/dry filter that is an extremely effective one. Unfortunatly it prvide the base for so many nitrifying bacteria to produce nitrates that it is less desirable in a reef situation, where the animals you are keeping are intolerant of nitrates. Live sand and live rock will provide enough biological filtration. The only real reason for and external filter is to create additional water area, increase the flow in the tank and provide a place for chemical filtration (carbon) if desired or needed. Even a foam filter is unneeded and counterproductive. If you go with a DSB you are actually providing a means for DENITRIFICATION, which is the conversion of nitrate into a gas (Nitrous?) that can release from the system on its own.
Your goal is to have a more self-sustaining system. Why have another device that draws electricity and requires maint? Especially when you can establish natural processes in the closed system that do the work.
Neil

 

[jeb]

So did you get it up and cycled DigitalBoy?I've got the itch now to turn my 20high to saltwater.Neal,do you have pics of your sw tanks? Have you or anyone you know keep and have good luck with anemones in a small tank?http://www.nano-reef.com is a beautiful site!

 

[Orchid]

I am a bit late to this thread, but I have four years experience in reef keeping, I used to be the reef keeper at a lfs, and currently I have two reefs, a 65 gal system, and a 25 gal system that was originally meant to be a sump but became its own "aquarium". My speciallty is in pipefish and dragonets.

If you want stability, bigger IS better. The bigger your system is the more stable the water parameters will be, small systems are prone to pH crashes. However, I have successfully kept a ten gallon reef tank totally by accident. It started out as a tank to hold excess liverock with a shallow sandbed to protect the glass bottom from falling rocks. It had a Skilter 250-a low quality filter/skimmer-for filtration. I threw in a bit of caulerpa to grow for my tang. The lighting I set up was a standard socket and a 75 watt halogene light that is used in recessed ceiling lights, I currently use this light in my sump. Within a month, the caulerpa had overrun the tank and the micro critters were everywhere and in triplicate. I brought an emaciated psycodelic dragonet home from the lfs where I worked and that little fish plumped up quickly in that micro critter infested tank. She currently lives in 25 gal system and is still very, very plump. I'd love to get her a male.

Do the DSB, it is a very valuable asset to any size system. We did an analysis of prices for setting up a fresh water vs. salt water system and there really wasn't much of a difference after all the gadgets each tank needed. A very important thing to remember is the fish that you put into a ten gallon tank come from an area where they have no limitations to their territory, it would be like taking you from a house and putting you in a cardboard box. The clownfish wouldn't neccessarily be happy in such a small enclosure.

There are many lovely small gobies and blennies that do well in small tanks-just not mandarine or psycodelic gobies-these are really dragonets and have very special needs, like live food only and not brine shrimp. Scooter blennies are also a dragonett and have the same requirements. These fish are closely related to pipefish and seahorses. You always see dragonetts in lfs and the majority or the salespeople don't know anything about them and assume they are easy to keep because they are easy to catch. Here is the TRUTH about them-95% or them die in the fish trade. If you do want one in a micro system, you must have a microcritter overun tank with no other dragonetts or wrasses. If you ever decide to get one, let me know and I will be more than happy to help you set up a system for them, but it has to be up and running w/microcritters for at least a month.

I have seen anemones kept in nano-reefs, they had a metal halide light, but I don't know where that light came from. You might try www.championlightingsupply.com, they have a very good reef lighting selection.

Here is another tip. The salt. Use one brand of salt and stick to it. I use Instant Ocean which is really the same as Kent brand sea salt-same place manufactures the salt. These two salts are consistant in their ingredients. Many reef keepers use Reef Crystals which is by the same company who puts out Instant Ocean. Also, very important especially if you have live corals, mix your water at least three days in advance, freshly made salt water is caustic. I make mine in a 25 gal tough tote and keep a power head in it for ciculation.

Be warned, once you get set up you'll wish you went bigger, then you'll get addicted and set up another tank...a bigger tank! :lol:

 

[jeb]

Orchid,My lfs had a green mandarin dragonet and I would just stand there and watch him scuttle around forever.I would love to keep one in my 20h if possible.I wanted to have a maroon clown but they just get to big for what i have to start with and the anemones I beleave are out becouse of all the lighting they require.I plan on keeping a few corals becouse thats the main reason for going sw.My lfs has a used 30 for sale cheap and i already have a stand for one so thats another option to the 20.What would be your setup for a mandarin dragonet in a 20/30?Do you use a refugium yet?Thanks for the post!

 

[Orchid]

Jeb,

I am more than happy to help you successfully keep this charming fish. I've already replied to your request, but the forum keeps kicking me out and erasing my replies so I will do this in many small sections so I am not losing everything, please bear with me.

Bigger is always better with a reef tank, but ultimately, you go with the size aquarium you can. Remember, you can always move your established tank to a bigger size and don't have to go through a whole cycling period, so even a small size can be quite the investment.

I would start out with a deep sand bed of aragonite sand. This will save you so many different future troubles if you do this, I've learned this the hard way. The general rule is at least one lbs. of live rock (lr) per gal of water. My 50 gal tank has about 65-70 lbs lr plus all the lr in the 15-20 gal sump. My 25 gal sump/aquarium has about 85 lbs of lr (it is a very wide and long tough tote that was to be a sump for a 75 gal tank that my floor can not support-hence the sump became the tank).

 

[Orchid]

Make sure the lr is cycled, if it is not, then you have to go through the cycling process before you can get a microcritter population to grow. It is this microcritter population that will feed your dragonette. Once your lr is properly cycled or if you start out with already cycled lr, then you need to get your hands on a chunk of lr from an established reef tank or sump to seed your tank with microcritters. It doesn't have to be a big peice of lr, it merely has to come from a tank with no wrasses. Wrasses are very efficient predators and even a small one can wipe out a microcritter population in a large tank. The best place is a fish free sump or refugium where you can see the microcritters.

If you can get some caulerpa, then put it in your tank, in my experience it seems to help the microcritter population grow much faster. For my 10 gal tank and my current sump, I use an $8.00 75 watt Halogene light I buy from Fred Meyers or Wal Mart. The caulerpa grows like crazy on this light source. Once the microcritter population is established, then you can put the caulerpa in a refugium or sump if you don't like it in your tank. The corals will absolutely need a whole different type of lighting system. But it is easy to upgrade once you are ready to.

Honest to God, every time I have set up a sump or tank this way, the microcritter population was on overload after about a month from the cycling period. Most people, me included way back when, start putting fish and coral in right away, this actually takes longer to establish a microcritter colony. If you are patient for your dragonette's food source to establish itself, then the of the stuff happens real, real fast!

 

[Orchid]

Oops,....then the rest of the stuff happens real, real fast.

After you get your tank cycled, put in the caulerpa and the microcritter seed lr, and the light, then be patient. For the first month on my ten gallon tank I did not do any water changes, only evaporative fill ups-this was out of laziness, though. I also left the light on 24/7 to keep the caulerpa from spawning and then dying off. There was no other fish in the system, snails would be OK, so would hermits or any other janitors that didn't prey on microcritters. It was completely by accident that the microcritter population grew, I only wanted a place to put excess lr and grow some caulerpa for my tang. But after a month or so the population of mysis, copopods, and amphipods was tremendous. They were everywhere, the sand and lr looked like it was moving! 8O

Once you have this large population of microcritters established, then you can put in a dragonette and it won't starve. Make sure this is the only fish for AT LEAST three weeks, longer is better. You can add cleaner shrimp or whatever invert doesn't go after the microcritters. The marroon clown will get too big for even a 30 gal, besides, they are the meanest of all the clowns-they are also called a spine-cheeked clown. Clarkiis, Perculas, Seabaes, Skunks, False Skunks, and Ocellaris clowns are all good choices in a small tank. Small species of true gobies are great too, clown, cave, and jester gobies. Bicolor blennies are cute and look like a whack-a-mole the way they pop out of holes in the lr. ABSOLUTELY NO WRASSES! they will outcompete with your dragonette for the microcritters. Stay away from damsel fish, they are just plain pugnacious once they get established, although a school of green chromis are nice, but in a reef tank of this small size you can only have about four to five small fish with corals so you really have to be selective in what you add. If you set up your tank exactly like I've laid out, wait at least three to four weeks between each fish or coral addition, then you should have no problems. Heck, and my way allows you to be successfull with a dragonette right off the bat.

The other traditional way of cycling your tank, starting off with damsels, then some coral, then some more fish, then some more corals makes you wait about a year before you can successfully keep a dragonette.

There is lighting available for an aquarist to keep an anemone successfully, but they need pristine water quality which is hard to achieve in a small tank for a beginner. Remember, anemones are very predetory, if you want a clownfish/anemone partnership in a small tank, then you really can't have other fish in there withouth taking a big risk of the anemone eating one of the other fish. Even a dragonette. I would stick to the corals first, sometimes clownfish adopt corals in place of an anemone. My saddleback clowns live in both red and blue mushroom coralimorphs and a cabbage leather. They've lived in brain corals-which killed the brains, hammers, frogspawn, and bubbles. My all-black percula clowns in the sump/aquarium have lived in brains and brown polyps.

If you have anymore questions, or if I am not clear on part of my instructions, please feel free to ask me. I enjoy it when people get satisfaction from reef keeping, especially when they can successfully keep dragonettes!

 

[jeb]

Orchid,Thanks so much for the information and advice.The only fish would be the dragonet and I dont see a problem waiting a little longer for an established microcritter population.I just have a few questions.What is the equipment you use?Are you always culturing microcritters on lr in a separate tank for food?