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Leaves

yukondog

Active Member
I'm setting up more apisto tanks and want to use some leaves [dried], the only leaves I have here are maple, lg. and sm. oak and tobaga [sp] leaves. Should I stay away from any of these? Would one work better than any other?
 

Drayden Farci

Active Member
Hi,

In the time it took to type the above post out, I typed "Oak and Maple should be fine, but I've not heard of/had experience with Tobaga. Oak are the most commonly used leaves next to Catappa. They last longer than Maple." While you *should* do some of your own research beforehand, there's no use in posting complete spam in a response either.
 

yukondog

Active Member
"." While you *should* do some of your own research beforehand, there's no use in posting complete spam in a response either."
How in the world did you come up with that by me asking the question and trying to learn on this forum. By simply asking the question is "research".
 

Im a Doughball

New Member
"." While you *should* do some of your own research beforehand, there's no use in posting complete spam in a response either."
How in the world did you come up with that by me asking the question and trying to learn on this forum. By simply asking the question is "research".
I'm fairly certain that comment was directed at the the author of post #2, who put the effort into telling you to search for an answer, but wouldn't simply tell you to use the oak leaves.
 

yukondog

Active Member
I meant to say Catawba, I cant spell. Sorry about that, I guess my nerves have been a little frazzled lately. I have plenty of maple but they do break down pretty fast, I try some oak. Thanks and again sorry.
 

Drayden Farci

Active Member
No problem. And I did mean that the guy above me has a point, where a simple search would have revealed oak and catappa leaves being the most popular, and maple being perfectly safe. Some people will never stop being forum ninjas, though, so I guess don't take it too personally.
 

yukondog

Active Member
I don't, every forum has one, but I could have did a search but did not think about it. I think I might try some blk. jack oak and Catawba leaves.
 

boofeng

Member
If you have tropical ornamental or fruit trees near you, I've found that guava and fiddle- leaf fig have very durable leaves that last up to six months in water.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
I don't, every forum has one, but I could have did a search but did not think about it. I think I might try some blk. jack oak and Catawba leaves.
Oak (Quercus pp.) should be fine, I'm not familiar with Quercus marilandica, but I'm sure it it will be OK. I think the leaves of Catawba (Catalpa spp?) may not last very well.
If you have tropical ornamental or fruit trees near you, I've found that guava and fiddle- leaf fig have very durable leaves that last up to six months in water.
You can buy Guava leaves for feeding Shrimps etc. I haven't tried them as leaf litter, but I have a plant of Psidium cattleyanum, so I may in future.

cheers Darrel
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
I have fig leaves I can get here local, but there just a reg. fig, would that work?
I've not tried them, partially because Fig (Ficus spp.) leaves all contain latex. Have a look at @boofeng's post in <"Question about....">.

Loquat (Eriobotrya japonica) and Evergreen Magnolia (Magnolia grandiflora) are good structural leaf litter, and maybe available to you? Have a look at <"Ground cover"> for some other options.

cheers Darrel
 

yukondog

Active Member
As far as ground cover goes I have plenty of plant, rock structure, caves and coconut halves. Thanks for the idea on the Magnolia we have no shortage of those, and Loquat I have in my yard.
 

boofeng

Member
Hi all,I've not tried them, partially because Fig (Ficus spp.) leaves all contain latex. Have a look at @boofeng's post in <"Question about....">.

Loquat (Eriobotrya japonica) and Evergreen Magnolia (Magnolia grandiflora) are good structural leaf litter, and maybe available to you? Have a look at <"Ground cover"> for some other options.

cheers Darrel
I remember what you said about saponins in rambutan tree leaves, Darrel, but nowadays I'm helping a friend who has a pond raising whiteleg shrimp (L. vannamei) and one long edge of the pond is an entire row of rambutan trees. The dry leaves get into the water in some quantity. But it's quite a huge pond, so I guess if the leaves are brown and dry, and as long as the concentration is dilute, it is fine?

We also ferment various cereals on site to feed the shrimp and the plankton they feed on - so I've been reading up on that. Apparently fermentation breaks down the anti-nutritional factors (phytic acid, etc) in the cereals. I suppose something similar happens to old dry leaves that have been sitting around in terrestrial leaf litter which makes them not as acutely harmful to fish as when they're green and full of sap.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
I remember what you said about saponins in rambutan tree leaves, Darrel, but nowadays I'm helping a friend who has a pond raising whiteleg shrimp (L. vannamei) and one long edge of the pond is an entire row of rambutan trees. The dry leaves get into the water in some quantity. But it's quite a huge pond, so I guess if the leaves are brown and dry, and as long as the concentration is dilute, it is fine?
I wouldn't be too worried about the Rambutan trees, most tropical tree leaves contain some form of compound (latex, saponin, alkaloids, phenolics etc) to deter herbivores.
We also ferment various cereals on site to feed the shrimp and the plankton they feed on - so I've been reading up on that. Apparently fermentation breaks down the anti-nutritional factors (phytic acid, etc) in the cereals. I suppose something similar happens to old dry leaves that have been sitting around in terrestrial leaf litter which makes them not as acutely harmful to fish as when they're green and full of sap.
I would think that fermentation should make more nutrients available. They use silage a lot as a cattle feed in the UK, basically <"fermented grass">.

In the case of naturally shed leaves the tree has withdrawn the protein (chlorophyll etc) and sugars before abscission.

How quickly the leaf breaks down, once shed, would depend upon the nature of the structural carbohydrates. I don't have any figures, but really persistent leaf litter is partially lignified and nitrogen poor. <"This blog"> suggests that more than 15% lignin produces persistent leaf litter.

Basidiomycota fungi can degrade lignin, and I would assume that is what is happening on the forest floor, but I'm not sure what happens in fresh-water.

cheers Darrel
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Post oak (stellata), Blackjack oak (marilandica), and southern red oak (falcata) are some of my locally available favorites: more rigid structure and long-lasting than others.
 
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