Learning the ropes

[yitzchak]

Hi,

I've been reading the posts for the past several weeks and have already gathered a ton of great information on dwarf cichlids.

Of course with some information always comes more questions. While I have several, my first question relates to trying to get a better read on the water quality from taps here in Toronto, Canada.

It appears that meters are the best and most accurate method to test water quality - but of course also the most expensive. Therefore, aside from using a digital meter, is there a type/brand of water test that is better than others? Other then pH and hardness is there anything that I should be testing for?

Thanks for your help with this.

 

[Zapisto]

hi yitzchak,

i am from montreal, Quebec canada, and i think aspen is from toronto.

Well i would say , i use my meter for ph, hardness, and TDS

 

[Neil]

yitzchak,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Aside from any standard cycling tests that you may need, pH and hardness is really all that is necessary. KH (carbonate hardness) is the more important of the 2 hardness values. The only thing that you are really missing (and truthfully, it is not so critical unless you are really into it or have exceptionally difficult species and are trying to breed), is TDS or conductivity, when you don't use a meter. No tests for those, only meter, i think!
In my pre-meter days, I used numerous brands of tests, and found many of them OK, but sometimes hard to use or read or whatever. I think that I finally ended up using Red Sea tests and, maybe, Aquarium Systems. Both are a little more expensive, but the few extra $ is worth the easier, more efficient use.
However, other might have more knowledge on this subject than I.
Good luck,
Neil

 

[aspen]

hi yitzchak, i am also from toronto. there seems to be some discrepancy between the water in the west end and the east end, due to 2 different water treatment plants supplying water here. i am in the west end, around jane and dundas, fed from the treatment plant near the mouth of the humber river. my water parms are gh 8, kh 4, ph 7.8 - 8.0. i have chlorine test strips which i use once in a while when the water i use 'doesn't seem to look that good on the fish', and have never seen a positive chlorine or chloramine reading in 3 years of testing. therefore i do not use any chlorine neutraliser, i only age all of my change water. this is good for even the smallest baby fish. people in the east end swear they use chloramines, so you need to check things out for yourself if you live out there. i always keep a small bottle of seachem prime, jic. this stuff will neutralise any chlorine or chloramine, and also lock up any ammonia and nitrite there may be in there in an emergency.

i do not own a ph or conductivity meter and spawn several dwarf species in tap-r/o mixes, and my discus spawn with pretty good success (around 80%) in straight tapwater. i haven't bothered to get a meter yet as the dwarfs i've kept up to now don't seem to need much alteration other than simply mixing tap with r/o water. borelli's seem to go pretty good in a 50/50 mix, with 80% hatch and survival rates, as do cacatuoides, blue rams and bitaenata. i have had pretty big spawns of nanacara anomala in straight tapwater, and have had incidental spawns of a couple of other dwarf species in straight tap. bits seem to need a bit of peat and a little more r/o to get them to go, ime.

if you want to invest in a meter, then go ahead, but so far i have not found any use for 1. simply using a ph test kit and tap r/o mixes and some peat now and then, coupled with a little experience seems to have worked for me so far. you should be able to get the hang of getting your fish to spawn by simply mixing more or less r/o into the tank when you do a change and gauging the results as in, if the fish spawn or not and whether the babies survive.

if i start going for more hard to spawn species, i may get more serious, but am pretty satisfied with things so far. i believe that hardness is more important than ph when getting fish to spawn, and esp whether the eggs are fertilised properly, but then i am not trying the harder species yet. most of my efforts have been concentrated on discus up to now, but plan to get into some more dwarf species soon.

i always use aged tap, but with very young fish, to do a 50% change, i drain 1/2 the tank, then take 3 days to top it back up. i have seen some bad reactions with tiny fish to large changes, even after aging for more than 24 hours. i use plain tapwater for all of my fish for normal day to day keeping btw and only do any alteration when i want to get them to spawn.

hth, rick

 

[yitzchak]

Guys,

Thank you for all of the great information.

It sounds like a simple test kit should be enough to get me started without having to make the upfront investment in a meter - by the way Aspen I live in eastern half of the city (Bayview/Eglinton) so I will be curious to see how different the tap water is here.

To date I have been emptying and refilling the tank direct from the tap without letting it stand overnight. Based on what I have been reading (and your comments Aspen) it sounds like using aged tap water would help minimize water quality variations. It also, sounds like using some R/O water will help to drive down the pH and hardness (I’ll have to get some stats on the water to determine the right mix).

My first purchase (in addition to the test kits) will be a holding container for the water. Do you need to aerate the water if you are letting it stand for 3-7 days?

Some good news is that based on my reading on the board I purchased some clay pots for caves and my pair of apistos agassizii’s (Double Reds) almost immediately started showing what seems like mating behaviour (male is strutting his fins and seems to be establishing his territory).

 

[aspen]

i have a small pump used for water fountains simply plugged in and circulating water in a spare 90 gal tank. i have found that this is much more effective than aerating the water.

as for whether you need to aerate, well if you don't the water will go stagnant. i wouldn't use the water that way. heat and circulate or aerate it. i have even used a spare aquaclear filter for this purpose. water at bayview and eglington is from the ashbridges bay water treatment plant i believe. watch for chloramines. aging is still recomended. it is still lake ontario water, just treated a little different now and then i've heard.

if you want those aggies to spawn and the eggs to be viable, you will likely have to cut your water with r/o, and maybe even use some peat. i would try a 50/50 mix, and if they don't spawn, do a 25% w/c with straight r/o at a cooler temp, say 70 deg. they are beautiful fish, but ime they require soft water to get a viable spawn from. our water is very resistant to ph changes. even at a 25% tap mix you won't need to worry about crashes.

rick

 

[yitzchak]

Yah I figured that you would want to have the water circulating, but thought I would ask before going out and buying it.

Never thought of checking on the Chloramines – I will grab a bottle of seachem prime, and test strips, just in case.

One last question on water quality before I get started – when using the peat do you only put it in your 90 gallon tank that you use for water changes or do you also use it directly in your aquariums?

My thought was that I would put it in the holding tank to help bring this water down and use this with the R/O water.

 

[aspen]

i use my 90 gal to fill all of my tanks, but i don't often use r/o or peat. therefore it is just tapwater. generally when i do use peat i will set up a 30 gal and use this to supply some smaller tanks with breeding fish in. i would use it in the aging tank or right into the tank with the fish, provided that you are using an air powered filter. it will clog a hob or canister filter pretty quickly used that way.

the other reason i have this spare 90 gal was due to a broken tank i had. it was a big mess, but now i have an emergency tank ready for such an occurrance. having a 90 gal full of fish with no place to put them is a problem i won't have to deal with again.

rick

 

[Christine-FishGrrl]

meters are nice but expensive. Use a good test kit until you can afford a meter if you really want one. I use test kits for just about everything but I finally got a pH meter that runs continuously in the tank because I was testing for pH so often (I use CO2). Hint: Christmas lists are good for this sort of thing!

 

[yitzchak]

The christmas list idea is a good one - but mine is already chaulk full with other things for the tank that I think I'm going to have to wait for another excuse to get a meter. In the meantime I am definitely going to follow everyones advice and go with a simple test kit.

Since I have an Ehiem canister it I will have to try the peat in the holding tank and see how that goes (hopefully combined with R/O I should get good results).

Vacation time is almost here so I'll be able to spend some time setting things up with all of this new found information.