Laetacara Araguaiae spawned! Any chance in a community?

[magpie]

I posted a few months back. I wanted to see if I could get Laetacara and an Apisto living together in a community tank. I was told to try and get a couple male Laetacara and a male Apisto or two . Well, I tried to get two male Laetacara, but they are tough to sex at smaller sizes. Apparently I have a male and female.

I knew something was up - the larger of the two (male) used to chase the other at feeding time constantly. And at times when not feeding. There was no true aggression, but lots of chasing. Within the past week he became more tolerant of her near him. Then I did a water change yesterday, and then last night he started doing little fluttery dances at her, and they were swimming around a lot together. Tonight I came home to eggs on a sword leaf! They have been taking turns guarding them while the other goes out to look for food I'm guessing. (They are pigs.) They have chased the Apisto some, but again just chasing and not harassment or any true aggression at this point. They've chosen the back right corner, where the apisto's spot is a driftwood cave area in the front left corner, so that may be part of it.

My goal was not to spawn these fish. But now that they have, is there any chance I'd be able to successfully raise some fry? Any resources or links for me? Do I pull the eggs, and when? Even if it doesn't work this time, maybe at least I can be prepared for the next time it might happen?

At the very least, it makes me extremely happy that they're that comfortable as they're wild-caught.

I'll come back with a couple photos later.

 

[magpie]

Here are some photos.

Female


I would like some food, please.


The male




The courtship... should have videotaped his little shimmy dance for her.


I dance for you, you dance for me.


Underexposed but I like how their blue iridescence shows here.


The eggs, guarded by the female. Hard to capture well - through a lot of water there is distortion. Close to the glass shots are the eaiest to get sharp.

 

[Mike Wise]

Since both members of the pair will guard the fry, there is a good chance that some will survive for a week or two. My suggestion is, once the fry become freeswimming, siphon out some of them into a separate tank and see how the pair do with the rest.

 

[magpie]

Thanks! I'll get a 10-gallon ready to go, just in case.

Now to search on how to raise fry. I do have frozen BBS...

 

[gerald]

Fresh-hatched live BBS will usually give you a better survival rate, but frozen may work OK on a bare or fine sand bottom where it wont get lost down in the substrate. Ive never kept that species, but the other Laetacara's are pretty easy to raise. In the 80's I had a pair each of curviceps and dorsiger that would share fry care duties (fry would hang out with either set of parents).

 

[magpie]

Okay, thanks much for the information and experience. I am really fond of the Laetacara- this is my first experience with them. I will try to find some way to get live BBS if the eggs do hatch.

By the way, I think I see now how some people can end up with a bunch of breeder tanks when they initially started off looking for a community set up. My main goal was a community tank, however now that these guys are breeding it's extremely fascinating and satisfying, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't have a few less fish in my overall community.

 

[gerald]

Thanks for the warning -- Guess we'd all better watch out for that dangerous slippery slope. |;>)

I think I see now how some people can end up with a bunch of breeder tanks when they initially started off looking for a community set up.

 

[magpie]

The eggs hatched and the fry are so tiny I can barely see them. Both parents still very attentive and chasing everyone else away from their corner, so far no full-on aggression, just chasing. Continuing to cross my fingers that they won't kill anyone and that maybe a some fry will survive...

I will try to get some live BBS if I can... or at least first bites or the like in case they live long enough. I'm hoping they have enough scrounging off the live plants etc. Right now I'm not sure how I could be sure that food could get to them unless I removed them from the tank. I was going to get a 10-gallon for a quarantine tank anyway, so I might just get that going just in case.

Everyone keeps mentioning what great parents the Laetacara genus (?) is as a whole... I'd agree so far. Even if I get no fry this time, hopefully I'll be more prepared next time. Either way, it's truly fascinating!

 

[gerald]

Use a lab pipette or turkey baster to squirt food into the cloud of fry. They wont start feeding until they're able to swim upright. If they're just wiggling or doing short dashes up and down, they're not ready for food yet. If you have a tub, rainbarrel, flowerpot or something outside where leaves have fallen in and soaked for awhile, but some of those in the tank - they often have good fry-food critters on them (and hopefully not Hydra).

 

[sasikan]

my L,araguaiae raised baby s in a tank with catfish. my pair also could not stand each other! i don't think you have to take out the eggs, mine watched there eggs pretty good .if something does happens they will probably have a new batch soon enough!

 

[magpie]

They keep moving their fry - the first time it happened I saw the female in their spot, picking at the ground, with a kuhli loach snuffling around right there and no fry, and thought DAMN YOU, (you cute little lovable) KUHLIS! But then later I saw that the male was still breeding-dark and still chasing the apisto, so I looked closer and saw that they dug a little pit and moved the fry to the other side of the tank. Then today, same thing - can't find one of them, searched through the plants, finally found the male guarding another different pit with the fry in it.

Is this typical for Laeatacara or are they doing this because they feel threatened by the others?

 

[Mike Wise]

This is typical for most open substrate breeding cichlids. Your dwarf acara pair seem to be doing fine. Just don't expect them to be able to protect every fry, especially once they become freeswimming.

 

[magpie]

Yes, I'm just going to let nature take it's course this time and see what happens. Next time I'll be prepared and pull fry into a separate tank once they get going.

They are just starting to swim around a little bit, and the male is the primary guard of them now - both will still switch off, but he is more often guarding them than the female. They are continuing to move them around. He is continuing to try and corral them back to the dips in the substrate - I can see how it will get harder and harder for them to keep them out of the mouths of other fish, especially the kuhlis, apisto, and stiphodon gobies.

They are chasing the apisto pretty hard, still no damage and he doesn't look overly stressed at this time. They only chase the other fish when they come close. They will chase the apisto whenever they see him no matter where he is. Luckily there are plenty of places to hide. And though the breeding is fascinating, I can see now why you recommended trying for 2 male Laetacaras. If they were a bit more aggressive they would be destructive to the apisto, who, before this, was the top fish of the dwarves.

They do communicate well with each other- again, I can see why people recommend keeping SA dwarves with other SAs rather than mixing with say Kribs. They do little sideways body language conversations - one fish will almost submit or demur to the other by turning a bit so they're almost laying on their side in the water. This alone will often calm the other fish down and they will then be able to stay in the same space together, or at least not get chased away and leave on their own accord. It's fascinating.

 

[magpie]

The fry are definitely dwindling now that they're swimming more freely. I'm sure most of them will fall victim to the kuhlis and Apisto... Next time there will be a 10-gallon fry tank and live BBS ready for them!

But I thought you still might enjoy some photos. It's amazing how much these fish change their colors on a minute to minute basis. The breeding colors are gorgeous and I wish they'd keep them all the time.

Female (i call her be-bop )

Male in front, (I call him Buck - couldn't help myself with the sp. "Bucklekopf"... I know, I know...)

This one was underexposed, so their colors are a little dark. Buck lower, Be-bop higher.

Be-bop

Get back over here!

Be-bop, in another variation of the colors, stirring things up looking for food.

 

[sasikan]

What are you feeding the fry?

 

[Racine Vice]

Nice pictures and beautiful fish!

 

[slimbolen99]

Those are some stunning fish. Congrats and great job.

 

[magpie]

OK, well none of the fry made it, though a few made it longer than I thought (found them swimming amongst the floating plants.

But the pair already spawned again! Is this going to keep happening or will there be a time where they give it a rest? How frequently do spawning pairs spawn?

If they keep going at this rate I'm going to have to rehome the Apisto as it's not fair to him to be continually chased. There are hiding spots, and they've done no damange, but when they are spawning they chase a lot more. When they're not spawning there's minimal problems, maybe a bit of food guarding but that's about it. If it was only going to be here and there, he'd be fine, but if it keeps happening like this he'll never get a break. I definitely did not anticipate this.

Looks like I have to get that fry tank going sooner than later...

 

[Smac]

Apistos are expert fry hunters and they are easily bullied. I think the safest thing would be for them to be the only cichlids in the tank. It would stress them out much less. You can expect this behavior as long as they are healthy enough to breed (which doesn't take much).

 

[magpie]

Darn... I was hoping that the laetacara were both males when I got them, as I like having more than one dwarf to watch. But I also I love watching them in their spawning behaviors (but wasn't anticipating it, hence the apistos). I also didn't realize that they'd keep going at it back to back - for some reason I thought they'd take breaks and would spawn a few times a year.


Edit: In another forum I was told that a happy pair will spawn every two weeks. Is this accurate? Every two weeks as long as they're happy? I had no idea that they'd be that prolific - thought that it would be a few time a year or something to that effect... If that is true then there's no way I can keep a spawning pair of them with the apisto. Like I said, they aren't doing damage and the apisto isn't currently showing signs of stress, but that would be long-term stress for sure. Sigh... I wish that young laetacara were as easy to sex as the apistos are.