Illness ID and help please

[Bilbo]

I cant put pictures up for these as both fish have died already but hopefully to stop it happening again. I know diagnosis is hard without pictures so I will do my best to give as many details as possible.

Carbon and then Peat filtered rainwater, pH 5.8, TDS about 80 - 100. Temp 27c
All other fish including rams and discus in same water are happy and breeding.


1. Apistogramma Bitaeniata female at about 35mm. (havent had confirmation but this was very possibly the 2nd to last female Bitaeniata in NZ and I dont want it happening to the last female)
Fish has a small bulge at its vent at about maybe 1 - 2 mm round. Looks like a small pimple of either normal skin colouration or slightly whiter. If it was smaller I would think it was an egg tube coming down but its too round. Possibly constipated but still ate a little. Fish wont fatten up and is very fussy eater. Tried Epsom salts, Prazi, Metro and Levamisole. Tried feeding whiteworms, grindals, daphnia, BBS, frozen bloodworms and it ate a little of each but no where near enough and didnt actively look for food. Found dead a week ago. Had no interest in breeding and hasnt coloured up much for the last few months.

2. Male Agassizi 65mm. Started displaying a white bulge in its side under the skin slightly behind the gill plate. Bulge slowly increased in size to 5mm round and 2mm out from the body and went slightly pink. Not a uniform colour but had flecks of pink/red with mostly white. No points or pits just a smooth bulge. Next time I looked it was a small open wound and looked like it had burst open in the middle with a little puss or blood. Died a week later. Never stopped eating or displaying to females, never lost colour and actually spawned during the process. Took about 3 weeks from start to finish. Tried PP, Meth Blue, Prazi, and formulin.

Please ask if I have left anything out.

 

[Bilbo]

No one have any ideas?

 

[wethumbs]

my guess is..

It is a tumor of some sort. It can be caused by bacterial infection.
This is usually a sign of poor aquarium maintenance.

I had the same problem on a few juvenile cichlasoma nicaraguense a long time ago. They would continue to eat and swim as usually as the tumors got bigger. These tumor can pop up anywhere on the body, but alot of times they would be at the base of the pectoral fins (at least in my case). If it is a bacterial infection then typical anti-bacterial medication would work. In my case, I had never been able to save them.

However, there is a chance that it can be viral. In that case, it is completely up to the fish to fight it.

It is most likely not a cancer tumor since cancer is rare on fish and take awhile to develop.

 

[Mike Wise]

The bitaeniata might have intestinal parasites/worms that have erupted out of the intestines (not good).

For the erupted cyst, look up symptoms of Aeromonas bacteria

 

[wethumbs]

I concur with Mike...

I misinterpreted the bulge was on the body, as I re-read the post "Fish has a small bulge at its vent". It is not a tumor for sure but a rupture intestine. For interstinal parasites, I had successful used an pet medication for dogs and cats on fish before. Just get the ones with capsules, that way is easy to take out the powders and administrate a small portion at a time as compare to a tablet. I was using 25% of a 500mg capsules initially and setup the dosage 25% at a time. After a couple treatments, dead and live worms (tapeworms) were visible on the bottom of the tanks as well as coming out of the fish. The fish (a group of 8 discus in this case) ended up trying to eat them. I had to 'babysit' the fish and siphon the dead worms as they leave the fish. Not the most pleasant job. The final dosage was around 1000mg in a 55gal tank. During the entire treatment period, I would do a daily 50% water change. The fish was eating the entire time as the constant pecking at each others dangling tapeworms indicated.

After the fish was completely dewormed. They exploded in growth, paired off and spawned accordingly.