ID the locale

[Lisachromis]

Hi guys,

Didn't want to waste the bandwidth here (and I already posted this elsewhere), so could someone follow the link and tell me what locale this female Pelvicachromis teaeniatus is?

http://www.cichlidae.info/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1305

 

[tjudy]

Hi Lisa,

Have you seen the courtship colors? I think it can at least be identified as being a Camaroon race. The lack of spots (though not the best thing to use for ID purposes) probably eliminates 'moliwe'. I think that you can also eliminate 'wouri'. If her courtship colors are very pink and orange, then she may be 'lobe' or 'nyete', which are the two more commonly available lighter-colored varieties. If she is more red to light purple, she would be in the 'makoure', 'keinke', 'lokounje' type group. If she is very dark purple to almost black she would be more of a 'bandwouri' or 'bipindi' type.

As always, identifying an unknown female taeniatus is a difficult task, and is mostly guesswork at best.

 

[Lisachromis]

The problem is I was only given the females. There was no male in the group. I'm working my way back to who had them originally. As far as I can see, none of the females have any spotting.

 

[Lisachromis]

The dominant female is very plump. Her belly is quite pinkish. The pics were done later at night, so that may have darkened her up a bit.

 

[Randall]

Female Pelvicachromis taeniatus

Hello Lisa,

With very few exceptions, female Pelvicachromis taeniatus from Cameroon look very similar, if not identical. Some of the more obvious exceptions include P. t. "Wouri" and "Moliwe." Also, the "place" names that are used in the hobby are merely labels of convenience and, in some instances, do not really correspond to specific locations. P. t. "Kienke" and "Lobe," for example, occur syntopically and have been collected from the same creek!

Ted Judy has much experience with female P. t. from Cameroon. He might be a good person to contact.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Lisachromis]

Thank you Ted and Randall. I have the name of the guy that bred these and will contact him shortly to see what he says.

Lisa

 

[Lisachromis]

I FINALLY got ahold of the guy and he no longer has the fish. However, he knew he had three varieties but wasn't sure which one the other guy had anymore. So, my choices are the following.

Bipindi
Wouri
Kienke

He seems to think it's kienke but he can't recall, so hopefully we can figure out which locale they are and then work out how to get a male for them.

 

[dhm325]

Definetly not Wouri. As between the other two, its really hard to say for sure. But if had to choose I would say most probably Kienke, based on the lighter blue color of the belly and the presense of slate colored areas on the sides.

 

[tjudy]

Keinke is my vote. I have pictures of bipindi on this page:

www.tedsfishroom.com/westafrican.html

 

[Lisachromis]

Very nice pics of your taeniatus Ted. Heck, of the Pelvicachromis on that page!

I guess now I need to find a male kienke. Any ideas?

I will be going to ACA so it may be possible to get one there.

 

[Lisachromis]

Ok, the man that originally had these fish had an opportunity to come to the house today, and he told me that these may be Dehane and not Kienke as he was saying earlier.

So, the verdict may be Dehane. What do you guys think?

 

[Randall]

Pelvicachromis taeniatus

Hello Lisa Lisa,

Pelvicachromis taeniatus "Dehane" is a distinctive Cameroonian form that exhibits a prominent orange-red check stripe. If your fish do not exhibit this coloration, then they are not "Dehane." Also, please look at the lower lobe of the caudal fin (tail). Cameroonian forms of Pelv. taeniatus exhibit a dark (blackish) distal (outermost) margin. Nigerian Pelv. taeniatus, however, exhibit a dark distal margin preceeded by a whiteish or yellowish inner margin. You can safely use these critera to identify your fish.

Good luck!

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[Randall]

Female Pelvicachromis taeniatus

Hello again Lisa Lisa,

Forgive me, my last post is only applicable to males. Rereading your original post, you seek information concerning females. With only a few exceptions, female Pelv. taeniatus from Cameroon are nearly identicle. We have no way of distinguishing the forms.

Sorry.

Randall Kohn

 

[mybirdshit]

Um, I'd just like to share a bit of my own observation from my own dehanes. The females I had also used to exhibit the orange-red cheek stripe. Here is one of them. In my setup the orange stripe in both sexes were rather faint, but should still be able to see it. Hope the link works for you guys. Both pics show the same female.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/117195253.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/11707152742.jpg&s=x402

 

[tjudy]

Regarding the colorations of Camaroon taeniatus, the extent and brightness of the caudal and face markings varies greatly within the populations and with mood. The edge of the lower portion of the caudal fin in male Camaroon types may be colored a dark red, brown or a dark grey, not quite black... but I have seen many images and live specimens of these fish without those marks. The red or orange cheek patch is found in other types other than Dehane. If you look at the images in the Linke/Staeck book, the orange can be seen in the faces of moliwe (pg 161), muyuka (163), dehane (166), lokoundje (168), kienke (169) and lobe (174,175). The cheek color is present in some, but not as many, of the images in Anton Lamboj's book, though his image of Dehane (191) is particularly distinct. Lamboj also states in his book that dehane and nange are the same locality. The nange image in Linke/Staeck (172) does not have the red cheek stripe (or at least not as bright as the dehane on page 166 or in Lamboj's book). My point here is that the pictures in the books we are using are a snapshot (literally) of a population and we have a bad habit of saying that all members from that population look the same.

In my opinion, the state of what is what in Camaroon taeniatus in the hobby is very jumbled right now. We are starting to get into third and fourth generation fish from the wild stock that starting arriving in stable numbers about 5 years ago (and still are coming in), and any definative markings between the races are being blurred... which indicates that they are probably not very genetically different at all.

Fish farms and larger breeding operations have also started producing greater numbers of taeniatus, and I think that there are more race-hybrids out there than we realize. Here is a case in point. I was given some 'moliwe' that were very young; sexable but not fully colored. The person I got them from said that his original pair came from a large-scale commercial fish breeder, and that the pair he bought were 'a few generations' from wild. I suspect that my fish are at least F4 or F5, but I cannot be sure. Here is a picture of the male as he looks today.

Notice the bright red cheek. That character is found in a lot of the Camaroon taeniatus, as well as the Nigerian taeniatus, especially fish that are several generations from wild. Also look at the lower edge of the caudal fin. I know that of all the Camaroon taeniatus it is moliwe that has the darkest and broadest edge band, but this fish a a very distinct secondary band of yellow inside of the dark band. I have had wild moliwe several times. I think this specific male is either an example of how these characteristics can be enhanced over captive generations, or it is a hybrid mix of types including a Nigerian form at some point. Here is a piture of the caudal fin... sorry it is fuzzy.

 

[mybirdshit]

That is a stunning specimen

You do have quite a valid point there about characteristics enhanced in captive specimens over a few genarations. Though possibility of this male having nigerian form blood I am not so sure about since I seem to notice the nigerian forms lack the red/blue maculae pattern in the anal fin from what I see in Lamboj's book and my own nigerian reds. But then again if it really was mixed, I wouldn't know since I have not seen an actual specimen of a known crossing between the different geographical variants.

 

[Roach]

Where ever the hell they are from, they are great looking fish. Someone send some down under!

 

[Lisachromis]

Hello Lisa Lisa,

Pelvicachromis taeniatus "Dehane" is a distinctive Cameroonian form that exhibits a prominent orange-red check stripe. If your fish do not exhibit this coloration, then they are not "Dehane." Also, please look at the lower lobe of the caudal fin (tail). Cameroonian forms of Pelv. taeniatus exhibit a dark (blackish) distal (outermost) margin. Nigerian Pelv. taeniatus, however, exhibit a dark distal margin preceeded by a whiteish or yellowish inner margin. You can safely use these critera to identify your fish.

Good luck!

All the best,

Randall Kohn

Ok, they are not Dehane. No cheek stripe! The caudal has a very thin dark edge to it. So, I guess that makes them Cameroonian. Would Kienke still fit then?