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Harem breeders?

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by mrjbacon, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. mrjbacon

    mrjbacon New Member

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    Can anyone post a quick list of the species they know are harem breeders? I'd really appreciate it!

    I've read-up on a lot of the species and run a search here, but my head is spinning trying to filter out all the other information I have to sift through to get my answer lol
  2. Apsnake

    Apsnake Member

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    It's only ap.panduro and ap.njisenni that pair bond as far as I know. All other apistogramma will be harem breeders but in different numbers. Some species like ap.trifasciata and ap.agassizi ideally need 1/4 ratio at least if you have room 1/7 works well I hear, but these species will not do well in pairs. Ap.Borelli are in my opinion have the most tolerant males in the way that they don't attack the females as much when they don't want to breed. ive kept agassizi a few times and they are brutal towards the poor females. Cacatoides macmasteri hongsloi etc are middle ground. Some could Be kept in pairs and some not so much it's all to do with tank size and how much cover They have. This is not scientifically proven I'm just saying from what I gather these species are easier to keep as pairs but will always prefer having 3-4 females to choose from. To be honest all of this only applies if you want to breed the fish if not wouldn't even bother with females get a single male and let him boss your tank off! Theoretically you could keep any fish In a pair in a big enough tank.
  3. Apsnake

    Apsnake Member

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    I noticed I didn't put the real answer. All apistos are harem breeders in the wild. In a tank it's different. if your asking because you want a harem just get any apisto except from njisseni or panduro and keep them 1/3 or more females if your asking because you want a pair and are trying to avoid harem fish borelli would be my advice unless you can get a guaranteed pair of njisseni. Can't comment on panduro as I have never owned them.
  4. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    I don't think this is quite accurate. Very few studies of apisto breeding in the wild have actually been done. I can think of 1 species (A. steindachneri) where it was observed that the fish formed a strong breeding pair. It was believed that this behavior was due to a high number of fry predators in the biotope. A. steindachneri is what I call a 'casually polygamous' species in captivity. Without fry predators or other male interlopers with which to contend, males have less to do and go out looking to 'spread their genes'. This is true for most members of the regani-lineage (regan-, alacrina-, and macmasteri-groups) as well as the steindachneri-group. More monogamous species are found in the nijsseni- and iniridae-groups, but this varies with the species. Highly polygamous species include - but not all - those in the trifasciata-lineage: trifasciata-, cacatuoides-, bitaeniata-, and agassizii-groups. Many others are what I call 'casually monogamous', being preferentially polygamous but monogamous if need be.
    themountain, dw1305 and ButtNekkid like this.
  5. mrjbacon

    mrjbacon New Member

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    Awesome info, thanks for posting. The info about pair-bonding with A.panduro and A.nijsseni helps as well, since I'm not 100% sure I want a harem yet. I'm weighing the pros and cons, as well as trying to decide if I want a species-specific tank, community tank, or a simpler tank with an apisto pair and dithers.

    If anyone has anything to add feel free!
  6. Neptunus

    Neptunus New Member

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    Hi
    I am new here and new to Apistos. I ahve a couple of trifascaiata in 240L tank. No other cichlids or any territorial species (except for goddy, but they are kind of in different dimensions).
    I hear apistos are best kept with 1 male /2 females ratio and was planning to by another female but observing my only copule behaviour i am not sure how they'll share the territoy.
    In my tank - plenty of small hidings, tunnels, roots, caves (at least 4 I "officially" installed for them) plus they discovered many others - they male is always chasing the female. Not that she 's evoiding the male, but I always see her running away or coming to him and then running away. I am wondering if i introduce another female, each of them will need her own piece of land i imagine. It will be a permanent war ?
    I precise, I am not aiming to breed them, just want them to be happy. (hopfully it s the right topic)
  7. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    A. trifasciata is a highly polygamous species. Males are very aggressive toward females not ready to breed. In such cases the male tries to drive the female out of his territory (the aquarium) in hopes of finding a female willing to breed. Often the female dies from stress or attacks by the male.
  8. Neptunus

    Neptunus New Member

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    Thanks Mike
    Now i understand i took for courtoisie what was actually an aggressive behaviour.
    In my old 60L tank, they used to lay eggs (with no further fray though) and the female became aggressive and even attacked the male first. But a couple of days later it was always over(i dont know if the male ate the eggs for i saw him "chewing" coming out of the nest or the eggs just perished in my water). If i have 2 females, what happens when a female guards the eggs and the other female is still not ready ? Will the "ready one" chase the other and how far ? Is she more as agressive towards the other female tant as towards the male or even worse, does the male chase the not ready ?
    All those questions is to decide if it worth buying another female to avoide a massacre or it s better to keep a couple and it does not affect them ?
    In my old tank the female was really oppressed (not depressed) when out of fray, fins completely destroyed, always in a corner where I gave her granules from the hand. In the new tank the male is obviously ok, the female still has to defend herself, seems better but who knows...
  9. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Aggression between females can be worse than between a male and female. It all depends on how the aquarium is decorated. With proper visual boundaries your tank is certainly large enough to contain a trio (or more). In a community situation, with other species, I always suggest not keeping pairs or trios.
  10. Neptunus

    Neptunus New Member

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    Do you mean several couples or a band ? Dont they risk to form a dominant couple and oppress the others ? Will there not be an outsider ?
  11. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    In community tanks I recommend no pairs, trios, groupings of the same species - no females at all. Find males of different body and fin shapes, with similar dispositions. They will interact with each other, but generally do not do more than display to each other. Why have females if you don't want offspring? Female apistos are usually less colorful, cause more territorial aggression among themselves, and increase the males' territoriality. Everyone who has been here for any period of time knows my mantra: 'a community tank is not a breeding tank'.
  12. Neptunus

    Neptunus New Member

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    Personally i find females more beautiful than the male, i mean the bride colours, and i love watching them during the fray periods. And to be honest i expected them to have the same behaviour as my previous Pelvica pulcher. Now i understand it will never happen.
    So I've got my answer : no need to add another female, it will not help in any way. Will try to make some chnages in the tank

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