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fish from Asian style tank vs that from Western world natural tank

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by edwliang, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. edwliang

    edwliang Member

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    two male A.viejita raised from two different environment. One uses the typical Asian type of tank (black soil + plants, clear water); the other using natural tank (sand + dead leaves and drift wood, roots, black water). The color will be totally different.
    800ca26cjw1dvveza66n7j.jpg 800ca26cjw1dvvfmo8b6mj.jpg viejita.jpg IMG_4440.jpg
  2. aquaticclarity

    aquaticclarity Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    I'd love to see the difference on sibling fish raised in the two different decorating styles with everything else being equal (lighting, water conditions, food, tank mates, etc.).

    The natural tank pictured in this thread just looks VERY sparse compared to how I keep my natural tanks and I would expect washed out fish in it trying to blend in with the washed out decor.
  3. tjudy

    tjudy Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Though I understand what you are trying to do, you are still making a lot of false assumptions when you try to define a 'western' aquarium. The next time you are over here, please stop by the house and I will show you how I keep my tanks.

    Color in a fish will be determined by four factors.

    1) Genetics....

    2) Diet....

    3) The quality of light that reaches the fish, bounces off of it and reflects back to your eye. The color/tint of the water will affect the light that reaches the fish, as will the type of bulb your use.

    4) Behavioral situation and mood...

    If you can control all four of those factors exactly and still conduct your experiment, it will be an interesting test.
  4. edwliang

    edwliang Member

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    i recommend everyone to use ADA amazon soil as the base, and you will see the result. dont judge without a try, it will be different. and the water quality also affects the color in fish.
  5. Rod

    Rod Member 5 Year Member

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    Firstly I don't believe they are A viejita...look like a male and female to me???
    Next...if you observe....Apisto's like to sand sift....they can't do that if it's little fired clay balls
    I also believe uneaten food is more likely to get trapped in that substrate and rot
    Ada soil is designed to grow plants in....and is a Good profit maker for those that manufacture and sell it
    but I've seen magnificent planted tanks with river gravel containing laterite....some old school (cheap) systems work

    I've kept Apisto's in planted tanks....but plants like java moss ,java fern,anubias or crypts in pots as I still prefer a fine sand substrate

    To me a healthy fish is not just about colour....it's also body shape,condition,deportment....

    Won't be buying any fancy (expensive) substrates any time soon....;)
  6. Gwendal

    Gwendal Member

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    Really nice tanks and decoration.





    1 saludo
  7. peterK

    peterK Member 5 Year Member

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    As other have pointed out, results from this (interesting, though) test won't be reliable. First, "western type tank" usually is not a small nano cube aquarium, rather a standard 45-60L (for a pair). Second, it's almost always furnished with much more decor, lot's of dead leaves and wood that is.

    I am sure that fish in the "Asian style" tank will be more colorful, since the substrate is dark, and fish in it has much more possibilities to hide (if one can say "much more" about a relatvely little aquarium). If your second tank applies to those "rules" I and others have mentioned, the outcome of the test wouldn't be so obvious. I guess both fish would be coloured similarly (excluding the fact that in black water conditions colours may look a tiny bit pale).

    To sum up - very nice idea!;)
  8. edwliang

    edwliang Member

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    thank you very much. i always admire the European, Japanese and Taiwanese with regard to keeping apistos. Apisto is a kind of ornamental fish. Always making comparison, to find the best method to increase the ornamental value and our enjoyment of keeping apistos.
  9. Rod

    Rod Member 5 Year Member

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    Your last post perhaps hits the nail on the head

    No doubt some keep Apisto's just for their ornamental value.....

    However

    I'd suggest a lot of hobbyist...particularly those here.... keep them to observe behavior and character....and to breed them
    I only ever keep pairs and any fish I have is set up to breed.....never kept fish as a single sex just to look at
    If you just have fish as ornaments....then no doubt a planted tank is prettier
    But if your interest runs deeper..... then the asthetics is more from a naturalist point of view than what Novice observer expects a fish tank to look like

    No doubt many would look a tank full of dead leaves and pieces of timber with coffee coloured water that contains a few tetras and a pair of apistos and think...what the!

    but to me its like comparing a Johnny Walker red with coke....and a single malt Scotch Whiskey

    I'll stick to the single malts...;)
  10. edwliang

    edwliang Member

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    :Di am trying to bread a pair of mendezi. the female has been pregnant for 4 times, unfortunately, she has eaten up the all the eggs each time. everytime she lays eggs, she guards the jar for 2 days, and comes out and returns to normal colour on the third day, which means she eats up all the eggs, and wait for the next time pregnant. after 1 week or so, she will be guarding the jar again. i dont know why.
  11. aquaticclarity

    aquaticclarity Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Sounds like either the eggs aren't fertile or something has her so spooked that rather then letting another fish eat the fry so is eating them herself.

    If the eggs aren't fertile it could be from a few reasons. Here are the two that I've encountered the most:
    1)male is infertile (it happens and on rare occasion the female might not be fertile)
    2)water chemistry isn't right (what is the pH and hardness in the tank?)
  12. edwliang

    edwliang Member

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    still havent bought any test kits yet. if the eggs arent fertile, how long will she eat them up? immediately or a few days after? my fish eat up the eggs after 2days of guarding. btw, there are a couple of baby bitaneata (1.5cm) in the tank, i think they may threaten the female.
  13. tjudy

    tjudy Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    If the eggs are infertile the female will remove them from the plaque as they start to fungus... could be as long as 3-4 days. If the pH is very low, the eggs may not fungus, but the female will instinctively expect the eggs to hatch within a couple days, and when they do not she may eat them.
  14. edwliang

    edwliang Member

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    Thank you. How will you increase the fertile rate?
  15. aquaticclarity

    aquaticclarity Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Bring that water chemistry closer to that found in the natural habitat of the fish (figure out the water values of the water the fish come from in the wild).

    Let the fish mature some. Often the first few spawns young fish have fail because they are "learning".

    And possibly improve the diet of the fish. This may not be an issue though and is why I list it last.