First Post - compatibility (A. Macmasteri + Checkerboards)?

[RevBKS77]

Hey everyone, first time posting here. I'm curious about the compatibility of A. Macmasteri (2 males, hopefully, I know they're hard to sex) and a group of 6 Checkerboard (random sex) in a 40 breeder? If the A. Macmasteri would be a bad idea, I was considering a pair of Bolivian Rams as an alternative (sex pairing suggestions?) Current tank details below:

I recently set up a 40 breeder with Brilliant Rasboras (8) and Odessa Barbs (5) in the top/middle, and Panda Garra (2) inhabiting the bottom. I had a disaster with an ill-advising group of 3 Nannacara Anomala (2 males, 1 female - all young juveniles) in which the female bullied and stalked the 2 males to death. She was a terror for being so young, and is being returned solo to the LFS later today. But now that I no longer have the Nannacara Anomala, I'm looking for more bottom-dwelling inhabitants.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Blessings,
Pastor Kam

 

[RevBKS77]

Pics of setup below. This is my first tank. At least the first for myself, haha. I’ve set up a 20 and 5 gal for my son and wife, caught the fever and bought a 40b for my church office.

 

[MacZ]

I'm curious about the compatibility of A. Macmasteri (2 males, hopefully, I know they're hard to sex) and a group of 6 Checkerboard (random sex) in a 40 breeder?

Well, A. macmasteri are actually sexable quite well if not domestic forms.

Anyhow, I find Dicrossus really appreciate very oft and acidic water (GH/KH below detection, pH about 5) and while being able to be quite rough among each other (I lost one out of five due to intraspecific aggression, then had to separate them), against a male A. macmasteri that decides to claim a territory for itself I doubt they have much of a chance.

Next problem would be the fact that Dicrossus usually are sold as juveniles (about 2-3cm) and show their sex quite late. The case above was the result of a group of 5 juveniles turning out all males.

And then there are the other fish. I would not expect Dicrossus to be able to assert themselves against the barbs and rasboras. They might eat the majority of the food before it reaches the bottom. I keep Dicrossus with docile Nannostomus eques and the far too active Hemigrammus filamentosus. Little food reaches the bottom.

Ultimately a last problem is the structure. It's very open, the lines of sight on dwarf cichlid-level (lowest 10-15cm) are not broken well. So the fish won't be able to evade the dominant conspecifics.

All that said... I'd probably only keep a single A. macmasteri in that tank and call it a day.

 

[RevBKS77]

Well, A. macmasteri are actually sexable quite well if not domestic forms.

Anyhow, I find Dicrossus really appreciate very oft and acidic water (GH/KH below detection, pH about 5) and while being able to be quite rough among each other (I lost one out of five due to intraspecific aggression, then had to separate them), against a male A. macmasteri that decides to claim a territory for itself I doubt they have much of a chance.

Next problem would be the fact that Dicrossus usually are sold as juveniles (about 2-3cm) and show their sex quite late. The case above was the result of a group of 5 juveniles turning out all males.

And then there are the other fish. I would not expect Dicrossus to be able to assert themselves against the barbs and rasboras. They might eat the majority of the food before it reaches the bottom. I keep Dicrossus with docile Nannostomus eques and the far too active Hemigrammus filamentosus. Little food reaches the bottom.

Ultimately a last problem is the structure. It's very open, the lines of sight on dwarf cichlid-level (lowest 10-15cm) are not broken well. So the fish won't be able to evade the dominant conspecifics.

All that said... I'd probably only keep a single A. macmasteri in that tank and call it a day.

Thanks for your reply! I wish I had seen it earlier before I went out to the LFS and loaded up. I went away from the Macmasteri and bought a M/F pair of juvenile Bolivian Rams (2 inches). I did get the 6 checkerboards though. Everyone seems to be doing well so far. Do you think Bolivians will attack or even predate on the checkerboards? They’re really small, like you guessed, about 2.5-3cm

 

[MacZ]

No, M. altispinosus are relatively harmless, but I still think this will not work out too well. Two species of dwarf cichlids usually don't work.

What are your waterparameters (KH, GH, pH), btw?

They’re really small, like you guessed, about 2.5-3cm

Thought so. At that size they usually don't go for dry foods, I raised mine on live artemia nauplii as a staple and seeveral different live and frozen foods (stay away from bloodworms!). In about 6-8 months they will have to be separated if you have more than one male otherwise expect losses. It's going to be a lot of work to grow them out with the quick and hungry tankmates swimming above.

I would return one of the species if possible and optimize the tank for the other. And in this case it looks to me it would be easier to return the Dicrossus.

 

[RevBKS77]

No, M. altispinosus are relatively harmless, but I still think this will not work out too well. Two species of dwarf cichlids usually don't work.

What are your waterparameters (KH, GH, pH), btw?


Thought so. At that size they usually don't go for dry foods, I raised mine on live artemia nauplii as a staple and seeveral different live and frozen foods (stay away from bloodworms!). In about 6-8 months they will have to be separated if you have more than one male otherwise expect losses. It's going to be a lot of work to grow them out with the quick and hungry tankmates swimming above.

I would return one of the species if possible and optimize the tank for the other. And in this case it looks to me it would be easier to return the Dicrossus.

MacZ, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. I trust your advice and experience, as I'm learning as I go and leaning on fish-keepers like you all. Normally I obsessively research any new species I'm adding, but in this case I took a chance with minimal research. I figured they'd share similar pH and temp requirements as Apistogrammas, and I'd read that they're a timid/peaceful fish that likes to be in larger groups, and I figured the Bolivian Rams would mostly leave them be. But that said, my temp is 76 and my pH is around 7.7, so I'll be taking them back to the LFS the day after Christmas.

All that said, the LFS is getting these Checkerboards back in far better condition than when they left. They seem to be having lots of fun, and the one nearly-dead "freebie" the LFS gave me is zipping around full of energy.

Thanks again!

 

[Mike Wise]

I think it depends on which species of Dicrossus that you have. If D. filamentosus, foirne, gladicauda, and even warzeli, I tend to agree with Mac. D. maculatus, however, should be robust enough to work with the average A. macmasteri temperament and like macs are clearwater species.

 

[MacZ]

D. maculatus, however, should be robust enough to work with the average A. macmasteri temperament and like macs are clearwater species.

True, D. maculatus are quite sturdy.

 

[MacZ]

But that said, my temp is 76 and my pH is around 7.7,

Yeah, anything over 7 is a risk as these fish are very sensitive to ammonia and the higher the pH the higher the amounts of actual NH3.

so I'll be taking them back to the LFS the day after Christmas.

Good decision considering the water parameters.

Please don't fall for them (I certainly did), because that would mean instead of returning them you'd be returning everybody else and getting a RO unit, a artemia breeder and lots of leaf litter.

 

[RevBKS77]

I think it depends on which species of Dicrossus that you have. If D. filamentosus, foirne, gladicauda, and even warzeli, I tend to agree with Mac. D. maculatus, however, should be robust enough to work with the average A. macmasteri temperament and like macs are clearwater species.

Thanks Mike, I checked and they’re filamentosus. No more spontaneous fish purchases for me . Back to obsessively researching like I normally do

 

[MacZ]

Thanks Mike, I checked and they’re filamentosus. No more spontaneous fish purchases for me . Back to obsessively researching like I normally do

The central most important and sensible thing to do in cichlid keeping.