Egg Eating Female

[Numnified]

Hi fellow hobbyist!
Has anyone experienced a female which constantly feasts on her eggs?? My female abacaxi female always tends to eat her eggs after 3 days I suspect she is a bad female. i tried changing my layout, add leaf litter, cover the tank, remove dithers, male apistogramma but nothing seems to work after their 23 spawn I decided to hatch the eggs myself to find out if the eggs were fertile or not in the first place and they were confirmed to be fertile. I was wondering if any experienced hobbyist has any method in solving such a problem. Any help will be appreciated!

 

[MickeM]

Hi Yelloyoyo + all..

I guess you have already thought all this over for some time ...(I know I have.. )
If/when you moved the eggs to another tank/situation you probably, by this, have given the eggs some new/different conditions making the positive effect ???
This might eventually be leading to:
- Increasing of the Oxygene/ other temp than before..?
- Less amount of bacteria/fungus/dissolved restproducts in the "free water column".. or in the sand/gravel..?
- Lacking "bad" inhabitants like the Malaysian sandsnails/ bad algae/ ostracoda / other predatory animals ?

Or maybe it was just a bad combo of fishes/ pair..?

My experience/hypothesis is this ..
If the female ends the normal behaviour in 2-3 days, the most probable cause is some kind of failure with the developement of the eggs..
This results in her eating the eggs to "re-save" some energy for next time she will spawn..
Since there is a quite large investment for her to produce these eggs in the first place, I guess Apisto/any parenting females rarely eat any fine/good eggs or wrigglers (of their own!!) ..
and BTW.. My own "statistics" rarely shows that males are sterile...!!

/Micke

 

[Numnified]

Hi Mickie thank you for your reply,
Ive tried to hatch the eggs myself using same tank water, with air stone bubbling through the eggs to stimulate the fanning of eggs from the female and as well as added methylene blue to reduce the chances of fungus attacking the eggs but I would still get quite a large amount of white eggs in the end and only some eggs becoming wigglers. So my hypothesis is that the male does not properly fertilise the eggs and hence most of them are infertile. I noticed that it was always on day 3 that the female apistogramma abacaxi would eat the eggs so my guess is that she probably thinks that the wigglers are food tho so she consumes them. I have a few fry from them that I have hatched myself they are currently doing fine tho and would anyone have any tips on my situation and as well as guide me through the stages on raising fry?

Cheers Darren

 

[Mike Wise]

I'd need more information before making a suggestion: tank size & decor; tank mates; water values (pH, dH, KH); foods and feeding regimine; lighting; tank location (height above ground & foot traffic). All could affect breeding.

 

[Numnified]

Hi Mike thanks for your reply
For my tank size it is a 45cm x 22cm x 20cm tank or in other words a 2 feet tank. For my decor I have two bunches of java fern that I purchased and I also have a handful of java fern behind the females preferred cave for cover incase she feels threatened. I also do have leaf litter to stimulate their natural habitat and the only other decor I have is just a cave that I purchased from a local hobbyist, the cave has only one entrance which will be easy for the female abacaxis to defend her eggs and eventually wigglers. For my tank mates I do have 8 gold tetras to serve as dither fish and as well as a single ottocinclus catfish and a sterbai corydoras to clean up any uneaten food. I forgot to mention that my substrate that I am using for the tank is ADA africana which is very beneficial to apistogramma. For foods I do serve a variety, I serve frozen bloodworms twice a week and then large granules of high protein value food. for lighting I do not really have a very bright one and I do on the light for 12 hours a day. The tank is located on a rack which is about 3 feet off the ground. foot traffic is pretty low as it is in my personal room so it should not be of any issue. I mainly doubt my water parameters are the cause of this but here you go anyway!

Water Parameters
PH- 6.4
GH- 2
Kh- 5


Cheers Darren!

 

[MickeM]

Hi again Darren + all..

I don`t think the eggs where infertile/dead from the beginning.. and I don`t think the male failed to do his job the best he could..
..since many Apisto males can manage to fertilize eggs without entering the spawning cave.. (They fan/whip their spermatozoa into the cave..)

My suggestion is for you to add some aldercones in your tank .... then they probably release some good stuff into the water..!?!
Many low-pH-demanding fishes are easier to breed this way..!

This often solve the "water- issue".... lowering pH beneath 6 ?/killing bacteria?/changing kH or TDS/ enable better fertilization?
But be prepared for the tea-water-effect.. !!
(I actually have got a female abacaxis who came out with fry today .. aldercones made it work ...last spawn without them resulted in dead eggs after 1-3 days..)

Also make sure the spawning cave is invulnerable for the hungry+sturdy Corydoras...!!

/Micke

 

[Numnified]

Hi Mickie
Tried that method you mentioned before I flooded the tank with catttapa leaves and the tank was filled with tannins. As mentioned above I also do have ADA Africana which is a substrate which makes water soft and acidic for the fishes. In the end the female still ate the eggs I have basically tried everything to make the female feel safe but it still didn't work out. Congrats on your successful spawn by the way! I hope my other pair of panduros will spawn soon!

Cheers Darren

 

[Mike Wise]

Well, I can see several 'problems' that might cause the loss of eggs. First, the gold tetras and C. sterbai are not ideal fish in a breeding tank - especially one as small as yours. Do you want a breeding tank or a community tank? It's hard to have both at the same time. Second, your water values are not ideal. I had no problem breeding A. abacaxis, but I had a larger 20Long tank (75x30x30cm) with only the breeding trio. My water values were closer to those in their natural habitat. Mine were pH 5.5 and 35µS conductivity (~2°dKH). Third, I find apistos do not eat dry foods all that well unless that is all they have. I feed a mix of live BBS and frozen foods every day. I have few problems with fry/eggs being eaten. Also keeping tanks above waist level and not casting shadows helps shy species.

 

[Numnified]

Hi Mike
Thanks for your reply! I did suspect that the tank mates were of the problem of the egg eating scenario so I tried removing all of them when they were in breeding mood but the same thing had happened hence, I do find that the problem does not lie in the tank mates since they also do stay at the other end of the tank away from the female breeding site when she breeds. I personally am doing a breeding tank and I feed dry foods which are reputable brand for example New life spectrum pellets as well as granules which have very high protein content. My pair personally accepts all foods but I also do give them bloodworms 2 to 3 times a week. So I think mostly it has to be my water any suggestions to improve them?

Cheers Darren

 

[Mike Wise]

Personally, your tank to too small for the community of fish you have if you want to be successful at breeding. As I continually write, 'a community tank is not a breeding tank) I also feel that you'd have much better success if you changed their diet 180° (90% live/frozen, 10% dry). I've made my suggestions base on 40+ year of breeding apistos.Take it or leave it, it's your choice.

 

[Numnified]

Hi Mike
I hope I do not sound like i do not trust your tips but frankly speaking im only stating the fact that ive done different tank mates for them and it just did not work out as they still continually ate her eggs with or without fish. I appreciate our help and I hope you do not take my response in the wrong way. as for the diet I will try to provide what you suggested any dry food brands and frozen food types you recommend? Thank for your help so far

Cheers Darren

 

[MickeM]

Hi Darren,
I`ve never tried the Catappa , but I know the repetadly positive effect from the aldercones..

Also remember that in a very small tank with a small volume of sand+/filter, it is harder to maintain a sufficient and well functioning biological tank.. (good bacterias need somewhere to live/attach in order to do their important job..)
..especially if you will have to feed a group of hungry tetras everyday.., bad restproducts may then be a problem ..?!?!

/Micke