dwarf cichlids outcompeting bottom feeders?

[Jayhawk]

I seem to have a hard time keeping bottom feeders alive in my 20 gallon tank. I've tried various corys (melanistius, generic green/bronze) as well as clown plecos and now I have a rubber pleco. My pair of curviceps and my 3 platys are always doing great, but I've noticed for quite some time they eat anything at any level in the tank. If I put in an algae tab, even after dark, the curviceps anf platys are at it within minutes. The same is true with most veggies I put in (although the platys tend to eat more of the veggies than the curviceps).

Between the platys and the curviceps there is darn near a war for any sinking/bottom type of food (the curviceps will chase each other and the platys away, but when one of them chases each other the platys swoop in). I'm wondering if this frenzy is driving off the corys and different plecos. I've never seen any of my plecos eat any of the various foods I've offered (every green immaginable, cucumber, zuchini, etc... - I've tried just about everything, sinking algae tabs, sinking bottom feeder tabs, frozen worms of all types). There is algae in my tank (a bit on the glass which I use to see my rubber pleco eating - although I've not seen that recently as well as BBA and some green algae on the plants). I seem to do much better with otos (I have 3 - 2 fat and sassy but one appears to be heading to the great aquarium in the sky ), but they spend all their time on the algae and ignore every other type of food I've offered.

I know I sound dense, but it wasn't until this morning that I thought about the fact that the curviceps and platys could be keeping the bottom feeders, especially the plecos away from the food I'm offering them.

Anyone else have similar problems? Is this common for dwarf cichlids? I know they are bottom dwelling, but I really thought that most plecos (especially since I've read clown plecos and rubber plecos can be territorial and slightly aggressive with regard to their space) and corys would be able to get enough food to do well, especially after dark.

Tank info: 20 gallon, 3 variatus platys, pair of curviceps, 3 otos (soon to be 2), rubber pleco (I had a clown pleco instead of the rubber pleco in the past - but he passed away), and 1 surviving cory.

pH 6.6-6.8 with DIY CO2. Heavily planted (vals, bolbitis, java ferns, moneywort, anubias). KH 2, GH 9. Nitrites & ammonia 0. Nitrates unknown (no test), but I do weekly 25% water changes & have a good filter (duetto 100 internal cannister).

 

[Neil]

Maybe you could try feeding after the lights go out. The bottom feeders should be more inclined to noturnally scavange than the tetras or cichlids. Or possbly feed the heavy eaters heavily with a food that they really like and then feed the bottomfeeders after they have their fill.
You do have a problem there. Usually Dwarfs and tetra are not such pigs in regards to spirulina tabs and the like. Good luck.
Neil

 

[Charlotte]

same problem

I have had the exact same problem with my platys, and also with all the livebearers I have kept (except Endlers!). My pleco is aggressive enough about getting food, but the bigger problem was their keeping my small discus from getting hardly anything to eat at all so they were not growing well.

At first I just had to put all my aggressive eaters eaters in "jail". (Which was a divider seperating a third of the tank where they had to stay.) But for keeping everybody together, what eventually worked well for me was feeding either flakes or something the platys really like at one end of the tank, and then something that sinks fast at the other end. Maybe that way your cory can eat while the platys are distracted. Also, make sure that whatever you put in to sink for your bottom feeders is soft enough that they can eat it right away. I had to do this with my (believe it or not) neon tetras that were eating everything before it would sink low enough that the A. Panduro female would come out and eat it. Sinking granules worked great.

Also, my pleco won't touch his zuchini until it has sat in the tank for at least a day or two, and the other fish have already started to pick at it. I think he liked it softer, and liked the inner parts exposed by the hungry platys. Hope this helps a little... good luck.

 

[Jayhawk]

Thanks for the replies - I'm always amazed at what we go through sometimes to keep all of our fish eating & happy. Sometimes you think is it worth it, then yesterday I noticed my young pair of curviceps looking like they were courting each other and I realized it is all so amazing we can keep these tropical denizens in our living rooms!

Well, I decided to move my rubber pleco and my cory to a tank downstairs where they have less competition (a paradise fish and 3 gold barbs who seem to leave the bottom of the tank alone) for bottom feeder types of food. The cory seems more active down there already, but the rubber pleco still seems like a mystery to me - I never see him eating.

However, just one day after moving him out I did notice a slight increase in algae on my glass - perhaps he was doing more algae eating than I thought.

Over the weekend, I picked-up a whiptail pleco at the LFS for the tank. I'd been watching them for weeks at the LFS in a planted tank, they were active all the time, and they were eating algae like crazy off of both the glass and plants. Well, I'm assuming he is just taking time to adjust because he has been real shy so far...and as I said earlier the algae is now noticeable on the glass...but I might end up moving him downstairs in a month or so and moving the rubber pleco back upstairs if he seems overwhelmed by the platys and curviceps...thank goodness for multiple tanks!

 

[mordor]

I also made mistake of keeping livebearers. mollies in my community tank. From one point of wiew they are good because they can eat everything I will drop into tank 8O It\'s good for some new fish to show them what can be treated as food :lol: On the other hand they eat a lot and they are quite aggressive feeders so they get most of all food I put and they grow too fast. I got bristlenose plecos, otocinclus and some corydoras. They never got problems with getting food because many flakes I got sink guite quick. I also use floating feeding circle so they know where food comes from and corys very often swim up to get somthing from it. Plecos can probably smell flakes because they appear below feeding station seconds after I feed and they also got some food that sinks down. I guess your problems may not be competition because I can hardly believe that there are no wasted food on the bottom.

 

[Jayhawk]

I had never kept livebearers until this trio of platys, and you're right that they are aggressive feeders. I've never tried a food ring - but it may be worth a shot.

That said, the platys and the curviceps eat anything that goes to the bottom of the tank except for veggies like cucumber or zucchini (they nab any peas or lima beans in no time flat), but no pleco I've ever had has ever touched a vegetable. The typical feeding scenario is I feed the platys and curviceps with flakes or pellets. I try not to overfeed, so I don't feed too much. I also know after 20 + years of fishkeeping most fish will act like they're starving even when they look like small baloons so I feed enough to keep them healthy but not so much that very much sinks to the bottom. Anyway I digress there, I then drop in an algae or bottom feeder tab. Within minutes, any bottom feeder is chased away by the shark like activities of the 3 platys. The platys summon the curviceps female first, she chases everyone away, eats for a bit, and then the male comes over and chases her away. While he is chasing her the platys move back in and the cycle goes on and on until all the food is eventually eaten by the platys and the curviceps with the bottom feeders maybe getting a crumb or two. This same scenario will take place even when I've fed an hour after lights out - the platys just are pigs and their activity never fails to summon the curviceps. The curviceps are unbelieveably smart. I've watched the male follow behind my cory and when the cory finds food he will chase the cory away!

Latest update - the sick looking oto died, the other two are as fat and sassy as ever and never stop working on the algae. There is still more algae on the glass, but the whitptail seems more comfortable and I've seen him eating algae off the plants and some on rocks - no glass activity though.

Downstairs, the cory seems really happy and is schooling with the barbs, but the rubber pleco is as nocturnal and mysterious as ever.

I wish I knew if I should leave him downstairs or move him up to the more algae prone tank (some indirect sunlight and 2.3 wpg always seems to lead to a small crop of algae). Anyone have an opinion?

 

[Jayhawk]

:lol: Problem solved! I traded my 3 platys in for another whiptail, moved the rubber pleco back upstairs, and just an hour ago observed the rubber pleco out during daylight hours and eating an algae tab.

I'm not sure if the platys were just too aggressive when it came to eating or if they were too wild & active, but now the tank is really calm and all the loricaids seem more active. The pair of curviceps is so mellow they don't seem to bother the whiptails or the rubber pleco at all.

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

Neil - you were right that it wasn't the dwarf cichlids.

Charlotte & Mordor - thanks for the info. on both of your livebearer experiences in your tanks.

Overall, I'll miss those platys, but this way all the plecos are out and about even during the day and that's a cool bonus.

 

[aspen]

for my first community tank (2 years ago) i bought a bunch of tetras, some platys, a pleco etc, (no mollies of goldfish though) and the platies lasted 3 days before they went back to the store. they are way too agressive at feeding time, they skim ALL of the food off of the surface in record time. then they poop like crazy.

rick

 

[Jayhawk]

Aspen - no kidding about the poop from platys. My tank with 3 plecos in it (even if they are small plecos they still are plecos) already looks cleaner than it did when the platys were there.