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dimidiatus?

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
Hello All,

I have questions,and doubts,about the fish i receieved last week.So i will ask some simple questions for you african westie pros.

I ordered 4 pair of wild caught n.dimidiatus. They came in all fine,and went into a tank that was seasoned,and stable.The acclimation process was about 1 hour.This i can quarantee,as i have acclimated saltwater butterflys,( chaetodons).

I lost four within a 12 hour period.Fair enough.This happens in this hobby.

The remaining four are eating very well,live brine,daphina,and finely minced beef heart.No problem with them.

However,after careful observation of the four,one of the remaining four appears to have a deformity of the back.Where the dorsal fin ends,there is a curviture,down to the caudal fin.Otherwise is healthy,and chasing the others in typical fashion,feeding well.

But,seeing how i payed a premium price for these " wild caught ",dimidiatus",
i find it strange,that i have a wild caught fish with a spinal deformity.

I will try to get some photos,but what do you all think about this.

The other concern i have,the fish i recived were smaller than i had hoped.i questioned the supplier,and was treated as if i was out of line asking such a question.Fine.
Bottm line,what i am asking is,what are the changes of recieving a wild caught n.dimidiatus,with a curviture of the back?

Any thoughts from anyone?


Thanks.Bill.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
I'm not sure but it may suggest that they were captive bred, I would ask the supplier for some more details again, if you don't get any, don't use them again and tell them why you won't be using them.

finely minced beef heart
I wouldn't use it, I know Discus breeders do, but I wouldn't it is a very unnatural food. Earthworms or the cichlid "shrimp mix" are a safer option.

For the shrimp mix (from Ad Konings "Enjoying Cichlids"):
I use 2: shell on Mysis shrimp to 1: shell on peas, enough gelatin to bind the mix and a sprinkle of spirulina powder and paprika. I freeze it in ice cubes and I only ever feed it if I'm really short of live food.

cheers Darrel
 

Rod

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
196
Location
Brisbane,Australia
I can't see why it isn't possible for Wild caught fish to have deformities....although they would be unlikely to survive if that deformity affected the fish to any degree.

That said....I wouldn't be Happy.....I don't understand why anyone would sell fish with defects....Careless at Best,Deception at worst.

I second the non use of animal fat.....might grow the fish quickly....but you'd better breed them quickly too!

Personally size isn't a big issue....as long as they are big enough to sex and there isn't a big size differential(which is always a possibility with real "wild caught" fish)....I'd actually prefer small fish as they are easier to acclimatise and they can get used to each other as they mature and select their own mate....larger wild caught fish have had more time to be infected by parasites!

Good Luck! I've had them before and would Love to get them again!
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Rod wrote,
I can't see why it isn't possible for Wild caught fish to have deformities....although they would be unlikely to survive if that deformity affected the fish to any degree.
That was my thinking as well.
cheers Darrel
 

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
Thanks guys,

The beefheart is out.They were not eating much anyhow,and seemed cluless as to what it was,ya know,the taste and spit routine.

The deformity seemed odd to me,only because,going all the way to West Africa,to collect a fairly rare fish,in a dangerous area of the world,plus the expense of the shipping,fuel costs,etc.,and then not to check what you spent time and effort to collect,and end up sending a less than ideal representive of the species back,seems pointless.

One would think nature would cull the fry with deformites out of the gene pool.


Thanks.Bill
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
These fish were actually collected by the person who sold them to you?? I don't know too many hobbyists who are willing to go into the DRC to collect fish. I wonder if these fish were actually shipped in by an importer and collected by native collectors. Sometimes local collectors are more interested in quantity than quality. When I collected in the Amazon I always made sure that the fish were at least healthy and hopefully of equal sex ratio.
 

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
Mike,

No,after several back and forth e-mails,it turns out that the fish were not collected from the shipper,it was a third party that offered the fish up on aquabid.

I have included several pics of the ones i lost.The four that remain are still doing well.


ndimidiatus003.jpg



ndimidiatus004.jpg




ndimidiatus002.jpg
 

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
Here are some shots of the remaining fish.

Anyone on the site have some good pics of dimidiatus they could post for me,as a reference point?


ndimidiatus012.jpg



ndimidiatus006.jpg



ndimidiatus011.jpg
 

Rod

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
196
Location
Brisbane,Australia
With West Africans I prefer to use very fine substrate because they like to continually sift through it...and they is no crevices for food to be caught and go septic

I also use Malaysian trumpet snails as scavengers

N.dimidiatus2.jpg


N.dimidiatus.jpg


By the way....their correct name is Congochromis dimidiatus
and I now use a finer substrate than shown in these photo's
 

wethumbs

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
476
The deformity maybe due to inexperience female picking up the frys 'improperly' when they are still small. I have seen that in P. taeniatus.
Does the deformed fish's swimming pattern different than the others?

I would be curious who you got the fish from as these are offer often infrequently in aquabid especially 'WC'. A seller that is willing to sell deformed fish, would not care about the sex ratio of the shipment and even proper identification of the fish. You can alway leave a negative feedback in aquabid to warn other potential 'victims'.

I agree with 'ROD' that you need finer gravels as substrate as they like to dig and sift. I would also recommend providing caves for them as they are cave spawners.
 

aquaticclarity

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,809
Location
Richfield, WI
If you decied you want to try some more wild caught Condochromis dimidiatus drop me an e-mail or PM. I have 30+ young adult dimidiatus that I've had for a few months that are doing very well. Some already shipped to another guy in CO a month or two back.

Jeff
 

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
I have to make a comment for everybody that questioned the beefheart.And this is simply to give a argument on this question.

as to this is not a natural food item,when was the last time anyone found brineshrimp in the Amazon,or the streams of Western Africa?

As aquarists,we feed our fish unatural foods all the time.

If anyone knows of a study of the gut contents of apistos,or congrochromis,or nannochromis,please forward this to the site,so we can all be enlightened.

I have started to feed my apistos,and dimidiatus,a homemade frozen food combo,of mussel/clam/scallops.Chopped,then frozen.It is then grated on a cheese grater,so the offered food is very fine,and seems to be taken with great enthusiasum.
 

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
Darrell,

Mysis?.Peas? Natural foods?.

Just pushing the envelope here.Thinking outside the box as it were.

Best regards,Bill.:biggrin:
 

Mike Wise

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5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
The problem with using mammalian meat is that the fat has a higher melting temperature than we typically keep apistos and most other tropical. Therefore, the fat can't be easily digested by fish and can cause blockages in the intestines. Above 30ºC/86ºF it should be digestible. I guess this is why beef heart has been successfully used by Discus keepers for so long. They are typically kept at these higher temperatures. Additionally, excess fatty calories are often stored as fat around the liver and cause problems here, too. Your invertebrate based diet should be fine. Gut exams of apistos show that they eat mostly aquatic mites and crustaceans, insects and their larvae, and detritus.
 

tjudy

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Location
Stoughton, WI
Congochromis dimidiatus are seasonally collected. We see them coming in from December - February, usually, and then they are usually not available. Most are collected in the DRC or CAR a long way from the place they are exported from. What this means is that the fish that are exported are usually starved for a long time before they arrive in the USA, and that malnutrition can affect the body of the fish. The natural diet for Congochromis, and other chromidotilapine cichlids, is primarily plant detritus and invertebrates. They will gladly eat high protein foods, but the risk is a bout of bloat because their digestive tracts are a lot longer (relatively) than those of fish that eat a lot of protein. C. dimidiatus is not commonly spawned in the USA... %*$(&# it! I have a mature pair that are not being very cooperative. I have not heard from anyone breeding them in enough numbers to be selling young adults on AB. But I do not know everyone.
 

Bill C

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
20
Location
Broomfield, CO
I'm th guy in Co that Jeff mentioned. I just got my first fry today. they still have egg sacs. They bred in A 5 Gal with sponge filter and a boatoad of java moss. I'll try to keep you posted on how things go.

Bill
 

discusone

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
25
Location
Denver,Co.
Bill C,

Am reading your post right? You have had a spawn from the dimdiatus you receieved from Jeff,at Aquaticlarity?

In a 5 gallon tank?:eek:

If i am reading this right,excuse me while i go outside,and beat my head against the garage wall.
 

Bill C

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
20
Location
Broomfield, CO
Don't hit your head to hard!! Yes, you read it correctly. There are also 4 fish in the tank with so much moss you are lucky if you see two at a time. All I can be ositive about is that there is at least one pair in there. I originally received 7 from jeff and put them in a 10 and lost threebefore I could mve them to a twenty that I was prepareing for them. I kind of forgot they were there. Goes to show that mother nature will take her coarse no matter what we do. I will start feeding microworms tommorow. They have been fed Ken's Cichlid flakes. I've learned the the least we do other than provide decent water and feed them they take care of the rest. This has worked on Westies, Victoians, Centrals Americans and South American.

Bill
 

tjudy

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5 Year Member
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Location
Stoughton, WI
Awesome! Glad to hear about this success. I think I am getting eggs, but not any fry. My female balloons up and thins out on a regular basis.
 

aquaticclarity

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Staff member
5 Year Member
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1,809
Location
Richfield, WI
That's great Bill! Doing better then me. I've only gotten has far as eggs from some F1 dimidiatus a few years ago. I haven't set up any of the batch that I sent you but I have a small group from the dimidiatus I got in last summer set-up. They've been close, really really close, but nother as of yet.

Any idea what the hardness, pH, and temp of the water they spawned in is at?

Jeff
 

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