dicrossus filamentosus or dicrossus maculatus

[anewbie]

I had setup a 29 for a. lineta but they didn't get imported. Currently i see these two fishes available dicrossus filamentosus or dicrossus maculatus
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Which one would you recommend and how many for a 29 (blackwater). That is 30 long and 12 wide. They are both wild caubght and withthe filamentosus being columbia and maculatus being brazil. I don't know a lot about these fishes but am placing an order for other fishes and figure i might as well throw in a few of these to include since shipping is already paid. Picture wise the maculatus looks stunning but i know little about their behavior and how many should be put together (esp if unsexed).

 

[rasmusW]

I imagine someone would say get atleast six and let them pair up for themselfs and then sell the leftovers… -but, i’m very curious to hear other thoughts as both are on my wishlist aswell…

-r

 

[anewbie]

Also do they require 86 degree or can they do ok closer to 80 ?

 

[MacZ]

Also do they require 86 degree or can they do ok closer to 80 ?

I keep D. filamentosus at 26°C and wouldn't go higher.
D. maculatus are a clearwater species, not blackwater.

In both cases: Make sure to have only one male. Otherwise prepare for mayhem

 

[anewbie]

Hum. the aquarium is blackwater - can i keep clearwater fishes in blackwater - i'm a bit confused because d. maculatus articles suggest a ph of below 5 for breeding - i realize clearwater is more about minerals and not kh but i'm not really sure where the line is drawn.
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These are sold as unsex so i won't have much say in what sexes.

btw this article is seriously erronous:

Dicrossus maculatus (Spadetailed Checkerboard Cichlid) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

 

[anewbie]

oops timelime expired to edit:
I did find a thread from 2010 where mike mentioned they are clearwater but in addition to seriouslyfish i found this article which talks about ph 4 to spawn d. maculatus:

Dabbling in Dicrossus: A discussion on sexing, spawning, and rearing under-appreciated dwarves | Cichlid Room Companion

Guides on successfully keeping and breeding Dicrossus in the home aquarium, with notes on distinguishing between and sexing D. filamentosus and D. maculatus

cichlidae.com

It is almost like people are talking about two different species.

 

[Mazan]

I have an article that looks at fish diversity of small streams in the Tapajos drainage system, D. maculatus. was collected in some of the streams investigated. The mean pH of these small streams was 4.5, (range 3.4-5.3), with low conductivity (mean 15.4 µS/cm, range 6.4-46.4) and mean temperature was 27.3 °C (range 25.2-29.4).

 

[anewbie]

I have an article that looks at fish diversity of small streams in the Tapajos drainage system, D. maculatus. was collected in some of the streams investigated. The mean pH of these small streams was 4.5, (range 3.4-5.3), with low conductivity (mean 15.4 µS/cm, range 6.4-46.4) and mean temperature was 27.3 °C (range 25.2-29.4).

So that is blackwater right with 14 ec and ph < 5 ? I wonder if there are several different populations in different water conditions ?

 

[MacZ]

And this is where that system of water types becomes a bit lacking. By wtaer parameters this is blackwater. But it's lacking humic substances, if you look at footage from there. The Tapajos drainage is a bit odd in that regard.

 

[anewbie]

And this is where that system of water types becomes a bit lacking. By wtaer parameters this is blackwater. But it's lacking humic substances, if you look at footage from there. The Tapajos drainage is a bit odd in that regard.

But from a pragmatic fish keeping perspective it is blackwater. To say it is clear water implies the higher ph and greater mineral content would not interfer with the fish reproduction but that is clearly not the case from reports. Right ?

 

[Mazan]

The distribution of D. maculatus includes the drainages of the Rio Madeira (whitewater), Rio Tapajós (clearwater), Rio Trombetas (blackwater) and Rio Maués (not sure) and part of the Rio Amazonas near to Parintins (whitewater), so it is not strictly a blackwater species but may occur in blackwater? However, I suspect that the small, slow-flowing forest streams of all these drainages collect leaf litter and may in fact have more humic content and be much closer to blackwater conditions than the main rivers for instance. I suppose D. maculatus to occur in these streams not in the main rivers...

 

[Mazan]

But from a pragmatic fish keeping perspective it is blackwater. To say it is clear water implies the higher ph and greater mineral content would not interfer with the fish reproduction but that is clearly not the case from reports. Right ?

Actually clearwater rivers also have very low conductivity, pH not so low as blackwater but not high either - eg Rio Tapajos: pH 6.5 ± 0,4, condutivity 14,4 ± 13,1 µS/cm

 

[anewbie]

Are these rivers connected in that when not breeding it can migrate ?

 

[Mazan]

Are these rivers connected in that when not breeding it can migrate ?

They are all part of the Amazon drainage (I think the Maués drains to the Paraná but is somehow connected with the Amazon and Madeira. I am not sure if there are any small tributaries that interconnect any of the other drainages, but I don't think so. To be honest I imagine that these are fish that would not migrate any significant distance and would probably be found only in smaller streams, maybe oxbow lakes and swampy areas, though maybe during flooded periods they may move longer distances, I am really not certain about this and others may know better.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I grew out four young Dicrossus maculatus in our rainwater, which has some carbonate buffering. They were unproblematic to keep and ended up a two pairs. I gave one pair away and kept the other pair.

It all went well until they bloated, which I believe is quite common in Dicrossus. <"The photos"> are gone from the thread here <"https://apistogramma.com/forum/threads/1st-d-maculatus-spawn.12389/">, but are <"still on UKAPS">.

cheers Darrel

.

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,
I grew out four young Dicrossus maculatus in our rainwater, which has some carbonate buffering. They were unproblematic to keep and ended up a two pairs. I gave one pair away and kept the other pair.

It all went well until they bloated, which I believe is quite common in Dicrossus. <"The photos"> are gone from the thread here <"https://apistogramma.com/forum/threads/1st-d-maculatus-spawn.12389/">, but are <"still on UKAPS">.

cheers Darrel

.

But were they able to breed in your carbonated water (which i presume had a more neutral ph) ? Also what temperature did you keep them at ? Last but least if you buy 4 do you have to remove the extra or are they fairly passive to each other in a 30 inch aquarium ?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

were they able to breed in your carbonated water (which i presume had a more neutral ph) ? Also what temperature did you keep them at ? Last but least if you buy 4 do you have to remove the extra or are they fairly passive to each other in a 30 inch aquarium ?

They spawned, but I never got any fry. There was a sub-adult Ancistrus L100 in the tank as well (not by design), so it may have eaten eggs or fry.

They were fine all time they were juvenile, but as they matured they would have needed a much bigger tank as a group.

cheers Darrel