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Deterioration of A. Elizabethea

Chongkie

New Member
Messages
7
Hi Everyone,

In need of your experience and advice.

Some background..

Recently, around 2.5-3 months ago, I was lucky enough to get some nice apistos. Agassizii Double Reds, Baenschi Inka II and Elizabethae super reds.

These were imported from Europe, Germany to be more specific. I live in South Africa and we do not have a variety of Apistos, that is why a group of us imported them.

I prepared the tanks, 4 x 2ft tanks, with sponge filter, silica sand, driftwood, T.catappa leaves, clay pots, Java Ferns and Crypts. Cycled the tanks for over a month, with Microblift Special Blend as per instructions. All parameters were good before introduction. All fish were acclimatized properly and was doing well.

The agassizii (1m3f) are in one tank, Baenschi (1m2f) in another and Elizabethae (1m1f) in the other.

I fed them BBS upon arrival, and around every 2nd day since. Also, feed ocean nutrition super shrimp, finely crushed pellet food, blackfood, various crushed flake food... all very high quality foods, that i got from a fellow fish keeper (Prof. Bellstad).

All the fish are doing very well, the Baenschi have bred and have fry, Agassizii are all well and the Elizabethae were doing well.

Around 2 weeks ago, after a WC, my male elizabethae male stopped eating and started to hide. I first thought nothing of it, but after the 2nd day, I started to worry. I asked all my contacts, and there was no definite answer.

So here are the Symptoms.

Very Slow breathing, fins fully erect, sits on substrate upright, hides in caves but doesn't swim around, doesn't accept any kind of food, colour varies from very dark to very pale (now mostly pale), looks alert but i can touch him and move him and he won't react or will react very little.

I haven't used any meds, and still do WCs (25% every 4 days). Added aquarium salt and more special blend. Added another internal filter with peat and added around 10 x t.catappa leaves to try lower the pH.

My water out of the tap is 8pH, but drops to around 7.5.

The prof thinks it might be osmotic shock, due to pH, that is why i added so much more leaves and the peat. But it hasn't helped.

The male is still hanging on, but very thin and I'm at a point where i must decide if i have to end his suffering. So that is why I'm turning to you guys.

Have you guys had anything similar happen to your apistos? any new ideas or remedies? and will it be wise to force feed the Elizabethae? and how?

Really appreciate any feedback!

Regards,
Chongkie
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
A. elizabethae is one of the true blackwater species that slowly deteriorates if the water isn't to its liking. Personally I wouldn't keep them unless I could keep them long-term in water with a pH no higher than pH 5.8 (preferably 5.5) and extremely soft, 35µS/cm, dGH <3°, and almost no dKH. I can't say if this is the problem with your fish or not.
 

Chongkie

New Member
Messages
7
A. elizabethae is one of the true blackwater species that slowly deteriorates if the water isn't to its liking. Personally I wouldn't keep them unless I could keep them long-term in water with a pH no higher than pH 5.8 (preferably 5.5) and extremely soft, 35µS/cm, dGH <3°, and almost no dKH. I can't say if this is the problem with your fish or not.

Hi Mike, Thanks for the reply.

Yeah it was mentioned that the Elizabethae is blackwater, and that they require super soft water. I was hoping that these guys would be more forgiving, because of being tank bred for a while.

At the moment, my pH is around 6.5. Trying to cycle more water through peat, but it is a slow process. Only other way is to go RO. Will see what I can do in the meantime. :oops:
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Is there any sign of sores on the body or abdominal bloating? If so, it could be a bacterial problem. If not, then maybe it's some kind of physiological damage to the kidney or other organs from living in water with the wrong mix of ions, as Mike suggests. What is the hardness (GH) of your water? Can you move him to a separate tank or bucket? That way you can keep a constant supply of food (fresh-hatched BS, mosquito larvae, chopped blackworms, moina) and maybe use 1/2 rainwater to dilute your tap water. I hope he recovers OK.
 

Chongkie

New Member
Messages
7
No there isn't any sores or bloating.

Could be kidneys due to the hardness and wrong mix of water. Trying to soften with RO, but will take some time. Hopefully he will make it.
 

Chongkie

New Member
Messages
7
So a quick update.

I started doing water changes with RO, so did a 25% pure RO WC on the elizabethea tank about 4 days back.

Almost immediately, the male started to swim about. Maybe because of the different water conditions. He is starting to eat BBS now, but still quite thin and doesnt swim around too much. Will continue with the RO and see he will recover fully.

Quick question, should i continue with pure RO, until I fully dilute the tank water to pure RO? or should I do a mix, maybe 30/70 Tap to RO?

Again, appreciate any feedback. :)
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
I would probably keep a small proportion of tap water until he seems to be well on the road to recovery. RO water alone is a physiologically difficult place to live, even for blackwater-adapted fish. Keep in mind that he needs to keep his internal salt ion concentrations about the same as any other fish, which is about 1/4 seawater salinity. How much tap:RO depends on your tap water chemistry and what other sources of ions are in the tank (rocks, sand, food).
 

Chongkie

New Member
Messages
7
Guys, thanks for the help. Unfortunately the lil guy didn't make it. Was fighting a good fight, but I think he was just too weak to carry on.
 

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