1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Crazy A. Borellii ... then dead?

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by Northman, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Northman

    Northman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi,
    A few months ago I bought a trio (2f, 1m) of A.Borellii for my 10g heavily planted low light/low tech tank (no CO2). Its a mature tank running for about a year with 9 Normans lamp eye, 2 Ottos and 5 fully grown cherry shrimp. Its has a Toms mini canister filter, 15w of light and I dose fertz to maintain 10 N, 1 P and 20 K. The water parameters are: Ph - 6.8 to 7.0, NH4 - 0, NO2 - 0. I tried to keep the temp at 74 but with the hot weather its been around 78-80. I do a 20% water change every week with 1G Poland Spring distilled water and 1G of NYC tap water condition w Prime. I clean the filter media every 2 weeks and the filter every month. With the tank description out of the way here is my dilemma.
    After about 2 weeks of the Borellii settling in the dominant female wouldn't stop harassing the sub female and the shrimp. Within a week my 5 cherries were dead. Eventually, after about a month, the sub female was dead. She next turned her attention to the male who was twice her size. Chasing and harassing him to the point where he would just hide. I couldn't believe he was backing down to her since he was so much bigger. I thought that maybe she spawned in one of the 2 caves I have in the tank and she would eventually leave him alone. Well, I came home from work last week to find him dead too. To put a final nail in the coffin when I arrived home tonight I found the dominant female listing on her side struggling to stay upright.
    What the heck is up? As I said my water is clean. I'm fastidious about water changes and cleaning. Everyone and everything was growing and doing really well in this tank. The remaining inhabitants are all looking great. Oh, one thing I forgot to mention was their feeding. I feed them Spectrum Thera +A for small fish, Ocean Nutrition Spirulina, frozen bloodworms, cyclops and brine shrimp.
    Any suggestions would really help. These were my first Apistogramma and I really love them but I don't want to get another group until I know what I'm doing wrong.

    Thanks,
    Northman
  2. Melanochromis

    Melanochromis Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Among numerous possible causes of death, frozen bloodworms can be deadly to apistogramma. In my area they are.

    PS. I like your story. Sounds frustrating but weird and funny in a way. I hope you don't mind me saying this.
  3. CopabX

    CopabX Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Frozen bloodworms are deadly? How so? If they are I'm in big trouble...
  4. Big G

    Big G New Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the source of your BW is more the issue... A lot of the farms in Asia grow their BW in large ponds to harvest them, but other 'bugs' and things can grow here too. It is suggested that certain bugs can survive the freezing process, and in fact infect your fish once eaten. I had an outbreak of Camellanus worms in one of my tanks, and after much reading and research, came across several accounts of how the camellanus eggs can survive the freezing process and can be found in these Asian frozen products.

    I have since switched to european sourced frozen foods and had no issues since. It could just be coincidence?

    Anyhow, I do not think that this is the issue here. I would rather think that the tank was too small for a trio in this case, and the others had no place to truly escape the female. The exact cause of death of the dominant female, This I am unsure of? I'll let the experts rather comment though?

    Regards
    G!
  5. RustedKnight

    RustedKnight New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As Big G says above, some nasties survive the freezing process.

    I've stopped feeding bloodwoms to my Apistogramma, the only losses i've had with Apistogramma has came when i've fed Bloodworm more than once a week, Coincidence or not, I don't take the risk anymore.
  6. tompoz

    tompoz New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First, do not keep shrimps with Apistogramma unless you want shrimps to be a food.
    Second, skip BW as advised by others.
    Third, 10g is just too small for 1+2. I tried that with A. rositae in 16g and had to rescue subdominant female.

    I would suggest to look just for a well settled pair, nothing more in terms of Apisto in such tank.
  7. Northman

    Northman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thanks for your responses. I appreciate your advise.
  8. Linus_Cello

    Linus_Cello Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Are freeze-dried BW just as bad as frozen?
  9. Hmoobthor

    Hmoobthor New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have never hear of frozen bloodworm killing a fish...

    I feed hikari frozen bloodworm to my fish and apisto for well over 1 year..no lost I throw in frozen bloodworm right into the tank for my smaller tank.