cactuidis eggs don't hatch

[catfishman]

do these eggs look normal?
when should I see changes in the eggs?
how long before they should hatch?

 

[merlin]

I have not bred cacs but the eggs look ok apart from a few that have gone white. Maybe 2-3 days before hatching

Derek

 

[catfishman]

thanks for answer Derek. I've had eggs before and something happens to them they simply do not develop beyond this stage
I'm trying to figure out if the problem is in the water or is genetic,
I'll post another photo tomorrow

Alon

 

[merlin]

Im sure the eggs change colour if they are fertilized/not fertilized cant remember which way. It may be they go white when not viable.

Derek

 

[catfishman]

o.k. all I can do is wait and see. I've moved the eggs to an individual aireted tank with rain water at 25 Celsius

 

[wethumbs]

Those are normal looking eggs with the exception of a couple of them that have turned 'bad' (the white ones). Eggs change to 'white' when they are infertile, the female will usually remove them, sometimes separate them into a different spot in the cave or spit them out of the cave. The hatch time is dependent on the water temperature but generally it will take 4 to 5 days to hatch.

Looking at the size of the spawn and the separations between the eggs, it is probably a very young and inexperienced female.

 

[catfishman]

Those are normal looking eggs with the exception of a couple of them that have turned 'bad' (the white ones). Eggs change to 'white' when they are infertile, the female will usually remove them, sometimes separate them into a different spot in the cave or spit them out of the cave. The hatch time is dependent on the water temperature but generally it will take 4 to 5 days to hatch.

Looking at the size of the spawn and the separations between the eggs, it is probably a very young and inexperienced female.

 

[catfishman]

she is definitely young and inexperienced its her second spawn, as she will grow older will the size of the eggs change?

 

[catfishman]

this is today's condition, the eggs are in a separate tank containing R.O. water and are being airated
hopefully the wont be severely attacked by fungus.

 

[merlin]

Looks like many are turning white which is not good. Some guys add alder cones to the water which apparently helps keep the fungus down. When you aereate the water is there a movement of water over the eggs. The female usually fans the eggs to maintain fresh water on the eggs. At the moment there are a few that still look ok you may still be lucky.

Derek

 

[catfishman]

Alder cones very interesting, I'll try that
the water is being aerated but is wont stop the fungus ... I'll try methylene blue next time even though I read somewhere that episto eggs are very sensitive to chemicals maybe a low dose will be o.k.
apart of the fungus is the development off the eggs looking normal?
I can't see any changes in color or form so far...I'm thinking these larvae will be really tiny

 

[Mike Wise]

You never mentioned your water values (pH, hardness, dKH, etc.). These can have a measurable effect on the viability of the eggs. The male might be having a 'fertility problem'. I personally never remove eggs. I find that the females tend to be better at tending eggs than me. A. cacatuoides is one of the 'easy apistos'. Most people are successful if they give the fish excellent water conditions, good food, and some time to work out the breeding process. I think a little patience on your part and not disturbing the pair will go a long way to getting fry. Good luck!

 

[catfishman]

good evening
more eggs have gone white but the remaining good eggs are scattered on the bottom of the tank
they were laid on the 24/12, when should they hatch?
as for water parameters 350 µS, 25 celsius PH 6.5 , this water is from RO so it's very soft, or at least it should be...
i'll check it out tommorow

 

[raymond82]

I had a similar issue with my T. candidi (see this thread), they would put eggs almost every week but nothing would ever hatch. Then when they tried the the 6th time it worked and they had 50+ fry. That was a month ago, now the female already has new eggs incubating. It's a matter of practice (and mainly patience) too I guess!

I'm not an expert on water values but the pH sounds good enough for A. cacatuoides. However, if the water is pure RO than 350 µS seems way too high.

Here is a quote from an older thread from Ted Judy, who says that KH might be the most important factor:

I have found, after many years of trial and error, that the parameters of pH, TDS (conductivity) and hardness (KH) are not equally important to the fish (and I am talking about soft water fish here). I think that the most important factor for the physical act of egg fertilization and development is KH. If it is too high there is a poor fert rate. That is why I use R/O to breed any soft water fish. Even when the fish do not seem to care behaviorally, I get better results in low KH water.

The whole thread can be read here

 

[wethumbs]

pH and temperature is less critical as compare to conductivity for hatching eggs. As for artifical hatching of the eggs using methylene blue, I have done it many times without issue when I was breeding them in harem (1 male with 4 females). I put so much methylene blue in the water that the pot turned blue and the water was too dark to see through it. The unfertilized eggs would actually turned blue and not fungus. The key with using methylene blue is knowing when to remove it otherwise it will kill all the wigglers. I always dilute the methylene blue down 24 hours before the eggs hatched. Personally, I never use Alder cone and/or Almond leave for any Apisto, it tends to disintegrate in the water and make abit of a mess. I cant stand a tank with messy bottom, it makes it so much harder to remove the fry.

Judging from the picture, it looks like you have the 'Orange Flash'. This tends to be much more inbred which results in smaller spawn and/or male's inability to fertilize the eggs. Some breeders would cross them resulting in a mix of 'Triple Red' and 'Orange Flash'. They then sort them out once they get bigger. Kind of like some breeders do with 'Double Red' and 'Triple Red'.

BTW, that's a really nicely cut terra cotta pot. It looks like you cut it with a table saw.

 

[catfishman]

thanks for the complement, I did cut it with a table saw
some fry have spawned they are still not free swimming but the yoke sack is almost completely absorbed.
in a different tank I kept a female with some eggs' they hatched and I've noticed that she put them in her mouth every now and again, this is interesting behavior do the fry actually eat from the mother's mouth?

 

[Apistomaster]

A. cacatuoides do not need soft acid water let alone neat RO water.
They breed and hatch fine in water with a pH of 7.4 and a TDS around 300 ppm.
If I use artificial hatching I use water from their breeding tank and use a drop or two per gal of methylene blue.
Once they have hatched I do a large water change using water from their breeding tank.
You do not want to subject the eggs to varying water chemistry during development nor the fry.

I have also noticed that A. cacatuoides variants have become less vigorous as inbreeding has been pursued so much over the years and that fertility varies widely from pair to pair. Last time I raised them I used a gold female with a double red male and ended up raising over 170 fry from one spawn. This is how they looked once full grown. In this instance the pair share the brood care and bred in a 10 gal tank so they were very crowded initially but it all worked out in the end.