Building a New Rack

[georgedv]

I want to build a new rack for the fish room. I have found this (http://www.fishforums.com/forum/diy-do-yourself/35090-diy-aquarium-stand-3.html ).

On the bottom level I will place 55 gal tanks, thus the length between uprights will be 49". I will place supports in the middle.

On the middle level I will place 29 gal highs all the way across.
On the top level I will place 20 gal highs all the way across.
All tanks will be placed as shown in the picture (length of tanks face out).

On one side of the fish room I will build to hold 3 55gal tanks and on the opposite side it will handle 4 55gal tanks ( to give you an idea of the length of the racks).

If anyone out there with some experience in this area can help me regarding the strength of this rack. I am a bit concerned with the middle row (29gal tanks). If there are ways to strengthen levels or sides...etc. Anyways, I am very excited with this project. The previous racks I had were a problem when cleaning and working inside the tanks cuz the top level was too close to the top of the tank. That really took the fun out of caring for the tanks, fish and plants. This new design just seems perfect. I am ready.....dreaming....sleeping hammer in hand!!

Thank you all in advance for all your help.
George

 

[slimbolen99]

Sounds pretty exciting. Can I ask a question? Are the 55s going to be short-ways facing out, or long-ways facing out?

 

[slimbolen99]

One thing I noticed about the image provided in the link is that the 2x4s that the tanks sit on are laying on the 'long-side' down; it would greatly improve the strength of that part of the rack to turn them up on end.

 

[georgedv]

The 55s are going to face long side out..like this |_______|. The strength of the bottom level I feel good about since I can always slip more supports underneath. The middle and top row I question because of the distance (49") between the vertical supports (the "legs" of the rack). Would it make a difference if I added another 2x4 horizontally on the mid and top levels? Sometimes my imagination gets the best of me and I imagine that the weight of the tanks will actually tear the screws right out of the wood. Is that even possible?

Again thanks to anyone who has built racks and can help me.

George

 

[Mike Wise]

Nicer than my stands. Mine are 4x4s and cinderblocks. Some are 12 feet long with only a 1x2" vertical brace in the mid-section. They've been up for 25 years this way without any problems. Brian is right, the 2X4s will bow less if set up vertically oriented instead of laying flat. If you are really worried about bowing in the middle row, then just add some 1X2 braces every 4 feet or so between the 55s. I'd also uses styrofoam sheets (normally used for insulation) between the shelves and tanks, to cushion the tanks and even out any imperfections.

 

[wethumbs]

Supports need to be at around 48" or the horizontal run (whether oriented vertical or laying flat). I learned this the hard way as I built a stand that has a horizontal run slightly longer than 48". All 3 levels are bowling. I plan to take it down and rebuild correctly this Summer as I reconfigure my fishroom for new breeding projects.

Another thing I dont like about the stand in the link is the amount of wood in contact with the floor. The floor will get wet often, this will inturn rot out the wood and causes mildew and mold to form on them. One of the solution is to use pressure treated wood for those in contact with the floor, but since the floor will get wet most of the time, even pressure treated wood will eventually rot out. Another way is to paint or 'weather proof' the wood to keep moisture from penetration the wood.

For ease of maintenance, I would recommend drilling all the tanks and putting bulkhead fittings on them. It will cut down maintenance time drastically with that number of tanks. I find that keeping the stand 2 feet away from the wall will allow easy access to fix any plumbing issue down the line.

 

[georgedv]

wethumbs, are you saying anything bigger then 48" needs middle support? Mike seems to say this distance is ok, but that it will bow. What happened, if you don't mind me asking, that has you doubting the 49" distance? Remember I don't have the experience in rack building so be simple.

I also have some thoughts on the wood touching the floor. The wood I will use is treated. I have been to Lowes and Home Depot and their people both told me it is ok, even with some water on the floor. Most of the water i get is humidity coming through the cement. But just in case I might treat the wood. Have you any suggestions on what to use for this?

As for maintenance I have another system based on gravity. If I ever get this up I'll take pictures and post them.

I think I will add some kind of support to cut the 49" length, just in case. Again I am open to suggestions, ideas and criticism.

thanks to all
george

 

[wethumbs]

I have two racks that are supported at every 48" and there is no issue with them bowing. The one I built at 57" ended up bowing on all three levels causing the tanks to lean towards the middle. I dont know if 50" will be fine or not, but the rule of thumb seems to be 48". I have 3/4" styrofoam supported by 3/4" plywood and this does not help with the bowing at all. Within a couple of months of use, I noticed the problem. Needless to say, it is getting progressively worse. Mike uses 4x4 and not 2x4, 4x4 are typically PT and they are proned to twisting and splitting, you are better off going with 2x4.

 

[raymond82]

Not much help but anyway interesting, there was a post on the BCA forum recently about wood touching a wet floor:

http://www.britishcichlid.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=21&hilit=wood&start=180

In the following posts some solutions are discussed, I specifically like the idea of putting a stack of tiles underneath the wood to lift it from the floor.

 

[georgedv]

Thanks for your input wethumbs. I am already designing it with extra support. Do you think doubling up on the 2x4 (horizontally) for the mid level and adding another upright in the middle for the top level will do? I'll post pics before I install any tanks just to be sure.

Raymond82, those are scary pictures. The author does say he used intreated wood. That is a little calming. regardless, I need to figure out how to add some protection. Tiles sound like a good idea.

I did some research on treated wood. Other then the arsenic, it seems this wood alters its shape and size with time. I am curious to hear from those with more experience, how much planning on those shape/size changes do I need to do when cutting. Should I cut close to size, larger or smaller.....or (hopefully) have no worries?

The input here is just fantastic. I posted the same topic on a few other forums, still no input.

george

 

[Mike Wise]

If you're worried about bowing, I would just put a vertical 1x2" brace between each tank. Wetthumbs is right about the 4x4s that I used. I went through a couple of pallets full or 4x4s to find the straightest, least twisted 12' boards. Some have twisted a bit, but the Styrofoam (styrene) smooths out the imperfections - at least it has for the past 25 years. I think that using 8x16x2" thick cinderblocks as a footing for your wood stands would be helpful. The cinderblocks are porous and will 'wick' away any water from the wood.

 

[wethumbs]

As long as you have vertical support every 48" or so, you do not need extra 2x4 horizontal runs. You will need the space between the 2x4s for lighting otherwise the separation between each row will need to be increased. You can get around the PT wood strinkage issue by using it only at the bottom piece laying on the floor. That's how they build houses with basement. The studded walls in the basement are all resting on PT wood as a 'footing'.

I have actually thought of Mike's suggestion on useing 8x16x2" cinderblocks to use as a footing for the stand a long time ago. On paper it looks fine until you look into the loading tolerance on the 8x16x2" blocks. It simply not going to handle the weight of the stand and will crumble if you are building a stand like the one in the link. I dont remember the loading spec but you can google the cinderblock spec. I use 1/4" thick 4x12" steel plate that has been rubberized to protect it from moisture. I also use the same steel plate on my metal stands to help distribute the weight over the concrete floor. Since the concrete floor is never even, I put a 1/4" thick rubber pad under the steel plate. Why 4x12", that's the smallest size I can get them from Lowes. If I have a torch cutting tool, I would make it 4x6". If the stand is smaller, I would recommend ceramic tiles, or stone slates that people use for landscaping as footing.

As for the link with broken stand, notice the black mold forming on the wood and along the base of the wall. That's a big health hazard. You want to keep the room with less than 50% relatively humidity (RH). I have my fishroom for over 2 years now and flooded the room several times already (I have a floor drain). The key is to keep a low RH to keep the mold and mildew away. My room is typically around 35 to 40RH depends on if I am doing water change or not.

 

[georgedv]

Thank you Mike and Wethumbs for all the time and info. I like the rack in the link because it "answers" all the problems and limitations I presently have. What held me back was support for the 49" horizontals. It seems the only way around this is with extra support...which is fine.

First for the top level I will build a vertical in the middle of each horizontal. That should take care of that.
Second for the bottom level I will slip supports in the middle of all its' horizontals.

The big problem is the middle level. So first I will add and additional vertical on each end of the series so that there are two verticals on the ends too ( I hope I am making sense see link).

Now to support the center of each middle level horizontal I thought of two options;

(A) Once each end also has two verticals, add a second horizontal, thus having two 2x4 on top of each other.
(B) Option B is to first screw one horizontal at the top, BUT BETWEEN the verticals. This will support the verticals from bending towards each other. Then running another horizontal over all that. ....boy I hope I am making sense

(A)
============
| |

(B)
-=========-
| |

Again your expert thoughts are needed. Thank you millions

george

 

[wethumbs]

I would suggest you build smaller stand first, one that is just a section of the stand in the link that would hold 55 gal per level. If you like it then you can build several more and put them side by side. From the cost and labor perspective, it will allow you to only invest abit of your time and money to see if the stand will work for you. Making the stand a modular approach will also allow you to take down each section of the stand for modifications/repairs/upgrades in the future without taking down the entire stand.

It would be interesting to see the guy in the link updates the current status of that stand. Personally, I dont like the stand design, the bottom level is too low and very impractical to service. The wood is exposed and not treated in anyway, tanks are resting directly on 2x4 that are proned to bowing; there are so many things that can go wrong with that stand. You want to enjoy your hobby and not be a 'slave' to your fish. It will get old really quick if it is a hazzle to do water change and/or frequent flooding in the basement. Once the mildew and black mold take hold, it would not just ruin your hobby but your health and your house.

 

[georgedv]

Sorry Wethumbs, my mistake. I meant to write that I will use treated wood. Plus I will wrap the base in vinyl siding, or a material used with vinyl siding. This was suggested to me by a builder I know.

Water changes will be done by building 3/4 pipe system on the back of each tank. One system lets water in the other lets water out. I have been using this for years with great success on my current set up. Dimensions allow for the space to run the 3/4 pipes.

I will set my tanks on an insulation board...what ever it is called and then on the 2x4s as you suggested. I hope I'm on the right coarse. Please feel free to criticize and insist on points you feel critical.

Again, can't thank you all enough

george

 

[Mike Wise]

I don't understand the load problem with a solid 2" thick cinder block. It's roughly equivalent to a 2" slab of cement, although more porous. My tanks' cinder block columns have been sitting in these slabs for over 25 years without any problems - and my room has no drain and been flooded repeatedly over the decades (Shop-vac special).

 

[wethumbs]

Cinder block is NOT the same as concrete, it is composed of coal cinders instead of aggregates and has lower density which in turn has lower loading strength. The strength in concrete is base on the type of aggregates like stone or gravel, cinder block uses coal cinder which give its a lighter weight for ease of handling. I am assuming you use the 8x8x16" cinder block with the opening facing up which has the maximum load bearing in that orientation.

Typical 4" concrete has a compression strength of around 5000lb/sq inch (basement floor and driveway are usually 4" thick). 8x8x16" cinder block (with opening facing up) would have a compressive loading around half that at best. With the 2" cinder block, its compressive loading would only be a (small) fraction of that of the 8" cinder block.

 

[Mike Wise]

I agree that cinder blocks don't have the structural strength of concrete, but they are not being used for any kind of support. I only suggested using it because it raises the wood uprights above a potential wet floor, so they are less prone to rot. The concrete floor on which the block rests provides the base structural support. The base of all of my cinder block columns rest on a 2" thick block. They have been loaded with aquaria for 25 years without any deterioration of the base block.

 

[slimbolen99]

Please don't use treated wood. The chemicals in those things are NASTY. Save some money and buy some nice straight boards. If you are worried about rotting, paint a couple of coats of high gloss paint on your normal wood. Your health will thank me later.

 

[slimbolen99]

. They have been loaded with aquaria for 25 years without any deterioration of the base block.

That's not really a fair assessment, since you are in thinner air out there Mike.