1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Breeding Mikrogephagus ramirezii

Discussion in 'Husbandry / Breeding' started by Boupette, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hello there!

    The smallest fry I never had in my tanks apart Bettas! There mouth is too small for microworms or BB brines shrimps. I bought some Infusyl but there's so many negatives about it that I'm scared to use it. You, the breeders of this specie what do you suggest me please?

    Tahacan96 likes this.
  2. dw1305

    dw1305 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    522
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi all,
    I'd definitely use the infusoria, and I'd also squeeze out a filter sponge for them, as this is a very good source of rotifers. The very small, nematode "Banana Worm" <http://www.worm-cultures.com/bananaworminformation.htm> are good, and very prolific. They are less than 1/2 as big as Microworms.

    Personally for all small and difficult fry I like the "Java Moss" method <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/german-ram-wigglers.11256/#post-60914>, and I'm also using a lot of dead leaves now as well.

    cheers Darrel
  3. wethumbs

    wethumbs Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It all depends on your goal. If you just want enough for BAP points at your local club, then the sponge filter or Java moss techniques would do just fine. Most hobbyists would be happy to get 10 to 50% from each batch of ram.

    Since I have an upward of 3000 ram fry in my fishroom at any given time with multiple breeding pairs of various types of ram, the only sure way is to culture protists in the range of 100 micron to 350 micron size to ensure amber supply of fry food. This will guarantee to make the most out of each batch of ram (>90% survival rate).
  4. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No it is not my goal even if I'm a member of my local club here. I do it cos I love to do reproduction. I have differents species most south american dwarfs and I sell most of my fishes in several lfs and members of Quebec's aquarists forums. But I don't have the place to do it as much as you.

    I did squeeze the sponge-filter for the first days and now they are eating microworms and few of them bbs. The father is still with them for the 4rth day of free swimming. He seems to be a good father but since I read that most of them are eating them, I don't know if I should keep him with them. What do you think, should I remove the father?
  5. dw1305

    dw1305 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    522
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi all,
    Well done, that is the really difficult bit with Ram fry, should be OK from now on.
    Keep an eye on him, but keep him in.

    cheers Darrel
  6. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    12 days of free swimming now 3 days without father who jumped out the tank! He was showing signs of white spots, and now I see the same on few of the fry. What should I do? Is 86-87°F is too hot for them?

  7. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,803
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd slowly raise the temperature as you suggested and make small water changes. I don't like to use chemical cures on such small fish.
  8. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No, I don't too and for Ick I always use salt and raise the temp at 86-87. I will only raise the temp this time. I hope it'll be ok. I never had fry with Ick.
  9. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Here they are after 14 days of freeswimming. I find them quite big, in fact they grow faster than most Apistogramma I raised and I've read that the Rams grow very slowly ... I cannot believe it!!! :D

    I give them 3-4 meals of Artemia everyday + ¼ water change every other day. It won't take long before I'll need to use another tank. Temp is now at 86°C (30°C), they'er doing ok.

    This video is not very clear but what I wanted to do was some close-up, I'm not 100% successful but it's better than nothing. They are about + / - 1cm.

  10. wethumbs

    wethumbs Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Rams actually grow very fast. Mine are over 1" (typically 3cm) by 3 months of age. Aside from a few Apistos like cacatuoides and agassizii that will grow faster than rams, most Apistos are painfully slow growers.
  11. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Amazing how some infomations on the net are so contradictory. Look at that: http://www.ramirezi.com/alevins2.htm I'll keep on getting the infos here!! I was proud they were so big... :( lol
  12. wethumbs

    wethumbs Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I feed them Repashy gel food so they actually feed all day long in addition to two feedings of newly hatched artemia everyday. They also get 80% daily water change as well.

    I am assuming the 'white spots' on the fry are protozoa instead of fungus attack. In that case, I have used copper sulfate treatment on fry before with limited losses (like less than 5%). Just make sure to increase aeration as the treatment will deplete dissolved oxygen level. Also turning off the light or shorten the duration will help. If the spots are caused by fungus attack, then I have used PimaFix with very good result on D. maculatus fry. Obviously, with any medication, frequent water changes is highly recommended and repeat dosing maybe necessary.

    Here are a few pictures of the critical stage of fry development. The pictures are low-res on purpose to keep people from 'stealing' them.

    1st day freeswimmer (the scale on the background is 100micron per major increment)
    [​IMG]

    2nd day freeswimmer
    [​IMG]

    3rd day freeswimmer
    [​IMG]
  13. wethumbs

    wethumbs Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I glanced through the website you provided. It definitely got some mis-information. It showed a picture of a developing embryo as 4 to 5 days old, which is incorrect as they hatched in approx. 40hrs. The one-month old fry picture that looked deformed is more like 1 day old freeswimmer.

    BTW, here is one of my EBR females with two weeks old fry.
    [​IMG]
  14. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I don't think it is fungus but Ick (whitespots disease). Increasing the temp around 30°C for 14 days will be ok.

    I never heard yet about Repashy gel food. I made a research and I found it at Ted's. Thanks a lot!
  15. wethumbs

    wethumbs Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I get my Repashy from Ted, just picked up another 64oz pack at the ACA convention in July.
  16. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Can't be there!

    It seems the white spots are getting more and more on the fry...
  17. dw1305

    dw1305 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    522
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi all,
    I think you are in a situation where you can only resort to medication. I'm not sure what you can get in Canada, but I've used ESHA EXIT successfully. It is malachite green based (Acridine, Malachite Green, Meth. Violet &
    Meth. Blue) which isn't ideal, but it worked for me without any deaths.

    cheers Darrel
  18. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Guess what? 42 days today! I'm proud to share a vidéo with you!​
  19. DaRe

    DaRe Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Well done!
  20. Boupette

    Boupette Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hello there! A little update about my rams. Only 2½ months , they do not yet have all their colors that are already they spawn!! Wonderfull experiences through it all...
    Thanks to you guys, cause I didn't know how to nourrish them in the first days I wouldn't have been very far without the trick of squeezing out the filter sponge. Next time will be Repashy gel food.
    Very rewarding experience!