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Apistogramma sp.rotflecken

Discussion in 'Dwarf Cichlids' started by gawet, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    a young male.
    fishes from Columbia, (Budar locality ?) collected by french friends in 2017.
    A.sp.rotflecken.jpg
  2. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member

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    Beautiful fish! However, I would not call it A. sp. Rotflecken, but rather stay with A. sp. D28. Together with some other „D-numbers“, D28 is of course a candidate for being the true „Rotflecken“. But whether one of these new forms in fact is identical with the latter is impossible to tell at the moment.
  3. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    You're right.
    i would call it D28.
    do you have an idea where the sp.rotflecken is located ?
  4. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member

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  5. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    Thanks.
    i'm gonna ask the french collector for more informations on mine location.
  6. Tom C

    Tom C Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    In addition to the red spots, KOSLOWSKI (2002) said that in the true A. sp. Rotflecken/Red-flecked, "The red color of the tail fins is not restricted to the upper and lower edges, but even covers the posterior edge."
    My A. sp. "D23" shows a caudal fin like that (but no red spots, though):

    [​IMG]
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  7. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member

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    In D25 some males show such a caudal fin too and some show a few red spots, but one hardly finds a specimen showing both features at once. However, unfortunately we don't even know whether these features are shown regularly or only exceptionally by the true "Rotflecken" either.
  8. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    Do you know where sp.D28 is collected ? in order to compare with le collecting point of mine
  9. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    Is there a way to change the post title ?
  10. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    I have the collect point , ti's a small lake in the near south of Puerto Gaitan (Meta)
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  11. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Your location is near the type locality of A. viejita, if not the same. Your fish looks like A. viejita to me.
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  12. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    Close to viejita but with red spots on the head ...
  13. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    1. Color in not important for apistos ID IMHO.
    2. I see red stripes - but no spots - in front of the suborbital stripe, and no spots behind the stripe, which is typical for Rotflecken. As much as you want them to be Rotflecken, their collecting locality and visual appearance indicate otherwise.
  14. gawet

    gawet New Member

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    Sorry for my english. that's stripes you're rigth.
    I don't want them being sp.rotflecken. That's just that the one who gives them to me called them rotflecken.
    now i think that , as i can compare with different pictures, sp.D28 could be a good identification.
    do we know the collecting locality for D28 ?
  15. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member

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    @gawet: Your fish are for sure D28. I know the french guys who collected them (together with Daniel Mejia) and brought some to last years AKZ-convention in Germany (Uwe Römer still keeps them).

    @Mike: The catch location of D28 near Puerto Gaitan belongs to the Rio Vichada drainage and thus is located on the opposite side of the watershed than the type locality of A. viejita. However, A. viejita have in fact also been collected in the Rio Vichada drainage and they looked exactly like those from the type locality.
    I also believe that D28 are closely related to A. viejita. However, the photos I have seen of them so far, show differences in the abdominal markings: D28 show up to four rows of rather thin/faint streaks, whereas in A. viejita the upper two rows often consist of oval spots. When aggressive or displaying these spots become especially pronounced with a deep black coloration and usually don’t vanish completely in the posterior part of the body, whereas in D28 the streaks merely become a bit wider, get a sooty-dark color and usually vanish everywhere apart from the position of the sooty belly-blotch that then shows up. Unlike in A. viejita this belly-blotch can also take on a sooty-purplish color in D28 (similar to that of D25). Therefore, I think that D28 isn’t identical to A. viejita. We will hopefully know more when their DNA has ben analysed…
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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