1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Apistogramma regani

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by gingerbeer, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I picked up a "pair" of these yesterday. No pics yet.

    I am looking for info and have read what is in CA2 - doesn't seem to be much on the net.

    My pair consist of one male (?) that is about 3 cm long and one female (?) that is about 1.5 cm long.

    Both fish have blue marking through the face. Look like Regani based on the pics in CA2.

    The male however has no markings on his tail. The smaller female does appear to have markings through the tail.

    Are the tail markings 100% sexual diferentiation?

    Can anyone give me any tips on sexing and breeding.
  2. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,817
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First, A. regani is a very rare species in the hobby. It usually is brought in by hobbyists who collect it in the wild.

    Second, most regani-complex species sold commercially in the hobby are sold as "A. regani" at one time or another.

    Third, don't rely on Dr. Römer's identification of this species. In Cichlid Atlas, for example, he shows 3 different forms under the name A. regani. In my opinion only the photos by Dr. Staeck are the true A. regani (A55). The others include photos of A. cf. regani "Trombetas" (A56) and A. sp. "São Gabriel" (A53). The species A. sp. "Peru-regani" in Cichlid Atlas 2 is actually A. sp. "Masken"/"Apache" (A52).

    A. sp. "Masken"/"Apache" (A52) is commonly sold commercially. Even without seeing your fish, I suspect that this is what you have. I could be wrong of course. I would need to see photos to be certain.

    If you actually have A. sp. "Masken"/"Apache", then the caudal fin of males only shows a couple of caudal bands on the very posterior part of the tail. This species can be sexed by the caudal pattern, since female Masken have non-patterned tails. On the true A. regani, the male always has prominent banding over the entire length of the tail. Females have the same caudal pattern although it is not usually as distinct.

    As for breeding, A. sp. "Masken"/"Apache" will breed in slightly acid & moderately soft water, but it is more prolific at around pH 6 & hardness below 5º dH. The true A. regani is a blackwater species that usually needs very soft and even more acid (pH 5.5) water to breed successfully.
  3. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    It makes sense that we would have more common fish over here.

    I have done my best with some pictures. Sorry about the quality.

    First two are the smaller female (?)

    She show real distinct zebraing with all her verical bars becoming extremely distinctand horizonatal line disappearing entirely. She shows this pattern when being aggresive.

    Also noticed really distinct black to front of ventral fins - and approx 3 coloured bars through tail.

    The pictures are her foraging colours.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The male (?) is harder to catch - he does appear to have some pointing of the fins - but definitely clear tail.

    [​IMG]
  4. curviceps

    curviceps Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Hi gingerbeer - if they are indeed A. sp Masken as Mike suspects, then the male should look like mine in the picture below (bought in Sydney).

    [​IMG]

    Are yours like them?
  5. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Big one

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Little one

    [​IMG]

    Some updated pictures. The big one does appear to be male. Used a borelie female to get him to flare - and he did. However he has no tail stripes.

    When the big one flared - he looked like the masken except no red - and no stripesin the tail.

    I am now completely confused with these - both as to what they are and what sex. I am now leaning towards both boys.

    Trying to suss out what is going on is driving me crazy.
  6. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    update

    updated pictures - these are driving me crazy
  7. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,817
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No pictures with your latest post. The photos with the 03-10-2008 post are rather unusual. Your "Big one" is a female. The "Little one" probably is a male. They seem to be members of the regani-complex, but do not look exactly like A. regani. Better photos would help with identification.
  8. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I decided to do an experiment and dropped my spare borelie girly in a container in to see what happens. She (?) being the big one went crazy and colour changed completely in seconds!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Seems to be a hint of banding in picture 2 - so ?
  9. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    OK she is a girl - dropped them back in together last night and they seem to have bred - atleast she is staying in her pot and has but on a differnet set of colours.

    The female is quite variable in colouration - whereas the male is still keeping the banding.

    Will put up any photos I can get to get a firm ID.
  10. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    male

    [​IMG]

    female with wigglers in the pot (probably)

    [​IMG]

    female with fry probably 2 days free swimming.

    [​IMG]

    I love the clour of the girl - the male I a still waiting for him to dazzle me.
  11. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,817
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I still am not certain what your fish is. I think that you will have to send them to me so I can watch them for a few weeks in one of my tanks.:biggrin: Seriously, they show a lot of similarities to A. regani, but the dark vertical bars are too narrow, the stripes on the tail are fewer and wider, & I don't see an black spot at the anus on any of your photos. The caudal spot (a bar on the true A. regani) seems different, too.

    Here are some possible species that your fish might be:
    A. cf. regani "Trombetas" (A 56) - unlikely; never commercially collected
    A. ortmanni (Mazaruni River) (A 46) - unlikely; never commercially collected
    A. sp. São Gabriel (A 53) - rarely commercially collected
    A. geisleri (A 58 - 61) - more likely; occasionally collected commercially particularly A. geisleri (Emerald/Smaragd) (A 59).

    Compare your fish with photos of these in books and on the web.
  12. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Thanks Mike - will go hunting piccies. Only book I have is CA1 adn CA2
  13. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,817
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK, these photos show the species/forms in CA 1&2:

    A. cf. regani "Trombetas" (A 56) - CA1, p. 726 top; 727 (as A. regani)

    A. ortmanni (Mazaruni River) (A 46) - Only shows the 'more coastal' form without caudal stripes in CA1.

    A. sp. São Gabriel (A 53) - CA1, p. 717, 723, 725 (as A. regani) & as São Gabriel, of course.

    A. geisleri (A 58 - 61) - more likely; occasionally collected commercially particularly A. geisleri (Emerald/Smaragd) (A 59). - CA1 as A. sp. Emerald/Smaragd. Many of the "geisleri' in the A. geisleri section are actually the robust form of A. taeniata.

    I highly recommend getting a copy of the DATZ book. It's well worth the money just for the photo identifications.
  14. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I have seen a bigger male from the same import. Whereas my male has regular spaced rings accross the whole tail, the big male has them at the end only - more like the "masken" pattern. Does the pattern on the tail change with age/ maturity?

    My girl most looks like the females pictures in CA2 as A sp. "peru regani" - my male I would lean towards the pictures of A sp "emerald" for mine - but may revise if people tell me that the bands can change with age.
  15. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,817
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A. sp. "Peru Regani" is the same species as A. sp. "Masken". Caudal patterns do change with age. It might be a good idea to wait until the male grows a bit older & send more photos.
  16. gingerbeer

    gingerbeer Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Thanks Mike,

    Given that and the big one I saw I would say A sp Masken is what I have.

    Appreciate all the help.

    Will take more pictures once fully mature male and put here.

    First spawn yielded 6 babies. Not many buit a start.