Apistogramma cf. gephyra wild

[FIL]

Hello,
I acquired some months ago of Apistogramma gephyra wild. But i have some doubts about the actual identification of this fish. In DATZ, there are 3 forms A231-233 but mine does not seem to resemble even if the marks are similar. It would be another form of gephyra?

 

[Mike Wise]

They look more like A. agassizii to me - and both female - but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, I see nothing on these photos that indicate a male A. gephyra.

 

[FIL]

vidéo

Thank you Mike,
The two pictures represent the male. I have a couple with fry.
Here's a video of the male, the female and fry.

[video=dailymotion;xpq9iv]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpq9iv_gephyra-agassizi_animals[/video]

PS : A question: I sent you an email on the French translation of your article "groups of species of Apistogramma". Did you receive these messages on the article translated into French in format .PDF? I have not heard back from you.

 

[Mike Wise]

First, I can not view your video for some reason (probably something wrong on my side). All A. gephyra males show a well developed red border on the top of the dorsal fin. I do not see this red edge on your first photos. This leads me to believe that it is A. agassizii.

Yes, I have your email. I received similar requests from people not only in France, but in the Netherlands, Sweeden, and Taiwan. So far I have said 'no' because I cannot read any of these languages (only English, German, and Latin - Spanish soon). Because of this, I would not be certain that my article is correctly translated. I am, however, thinking if I should reconsider. Please allow me some time.

 

[HaakonH]

That's strange. The video certainly shows two fish practicing brood care, but the male shows very female-like features. It's hard to tell from the video because of the slightly poor quality, but the male fish seems to have a red border on it's dorsal fin. But it can't be seen well enough to be sure. And the caudal fin of the male is not easy to see either, it doesn't look very spade-shaped?

Haakon

 

[FIL]

Yes, the male has a red dorsal fin and the female accepted the male near fry. Now the male chased the female but he does not really care of the fry.

Concerning the quality of the video, I use an analog camcorder and I have to convert the images who lose of quality. I will try to improve the image.

An other vidéo
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp45sn_gephyra-sauvage_animals

Yes, I have your email. I received similar requests from people not only in France, but in the Netherlands, Sweeden, and Taiwan. So far I have said 'no' because I cannot read any of these languages (only English, German, and Latin - Spanish soon). Because of this, I would not be certain that my article is correctly translated. I am, however, thinking if I should reconsider. Please allow me some time.

Uh! in fact you have accepted my request several months ago. Me and two friends had translated your article and I'd suggest you download it on my server. This is a PDF file (11 MB). I can give you internet address again if you wish. I do not diffuse freely your article, it must make a request, I just show some excerpts on my forum: http://www.cichlidnormandie.org/t949-description-des-groupes-d-especes-d-apistogramma#8332

Say if you want me to stop the spread. For now, only five people have applied to read the article, it is not much.

In any case, thank you for this article because it help me a lot in identifying Apistogramma.

Sorry if I was too fast in spreading on my forum.

Nicolas
​

 

[Mike Wise]

Nicolas, I viewed the video and honestly cannot identify the species from it. It is just not clear enough. Both look like females (deeper body; non-patterned caudal), but obviously one is a male:biggrin: Question: does the male always show a continuous lateral band across the body, even in threat display?

Since you have put so much effort into your project, please continue; you have my permission.

 

[FIL]

thin! I must find a digital camcorder to get a better picture quality.

the male always show a continuous lateral band across the body, even in threat display?

Yes, the male always show a continuous lateral band across the body in all circumstances.

But I think this lateral band is very similar to the agassizi and more particularly the Apistogramma cf. A241 or A242 agassizi. It is very difficult to differentiate these two species.

I will try to redo the photos and video much better ...

​

 

[Mike Wise]

A. gephyra is most easily separated from A. agassizii when in high threat display: A. gephyra - lateral band continuous from operculum into caudal fin; A. agassizii - lateral band fades to a short band near the operculum, a lateral spot, and a short band along the caudal peduncle and into the caudal fin. This would indicate that your fish probably are A. gephyra, especially if they have a lace-like pattern in the caudal fin (which is not visible in your photos/videos). This lace pattern is not a diagnostic feature, however. A. gephyra, A. cf. agassizii (Netz), and A. agassizii are all found along the Rio Negro. The Rio Negro seems to be an area of convergence for agassizii-complex species.

 

[FIL]

Thank you mike,

I'll look more precisely this lace-like pattern in the caudal end ...

 

[FIL]

Hello,
I just make new photos of this fish. I always have a doubt about his identity because he does not look like gephyra that I know but it seems that there are two different forms?

and here is a link to a website that shows a picture of a gephyra that resembles mine. http://www.apistogramma.israquarium.co.il/FishIndex/Apistogramma_gephyra.html

 

[Mike Wise]

I believe that this a a population of A. agassizii. Is seems to show scales in the anterior-ventral area of the breast. Like A. pertensis, A. gephyra has an unscaled area on this part of the breast. Your fish shows a very pale white submarginal band on the caudal fin. This is a feature of A. agassizii, not A. gephyra. Your fish also looks very old or very obese.

 

[Mike Wise]

I just looked at the photo on the site that you linked. The top left fish is similar to your fish - a population of A. agassizii, not A. gephyra. The fish below it could be A. agassizii, too.

 

[FIL]

...This is a feature of A. agassizii, not A. gephyra. Your fish also looks very old or very obese.

Ok, yes he is obese and has always been like that and yet I feed him once a day and very few with a fasting week.

No he is young

I have of fry

 

[FIL]

Hello,

I modified the environment of my fishes and i see that the female has changed. Two black spots laterals can be observed as with the gephyra but the male has none? the doubt remains!!
The couple had fry that I grow to see if they are hybrids.

look this vidéo

 

[FIL]

Oops! I had not read this topic. I know now that females agassizii can have two black spots lateral.

Sorry

Nicolas

 

[FIL]

Hi,

I continue on this topic by showing you the offspring of this couple.
Is this the confirmation that it is a agassizii??

thank you

Nicolas

 

[Mike Wise]

Nicolas, I still do not believe that this is a form/population of A. gephyra.

 

[FIL]

Mike thank you for the confirmation.

Occasionally, I will show you photos on the evolution of fish.