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Apistogramma cacatuoides fry growth rate.

Phil AquariumDays

New Member
Messages
13
Hi everyone, I have some apistogramma cacatuoides fry growing well and being well looked after by the female. I only noticed them a week and a half ago, swimming with the female. Now they have some patterns and seem to have grown quick. I'm feeding bbs around 3 times a day. Also in the process of setting up a grow out tank for them with a sponge filter already cycled from my main tank.
My questions are, roughly how old do you think they are from the photos and when should I remove them from the mother, IE at what age/size?
Thanks
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MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,184
Location
Germany
I only noticed them a week and a half ago, swimming with the female
Then if you add the wiggler stage and the egg stage you get to 2 or 2.5 weeks.

when should I remove them from the mother, IE at what age/size?
Once she stops caring. You will notice and see the point when it's time. Until then leave them with the mother.
 

Phil AquariumDays

New Member
Messages
13
This is the start of my grow out tank, plants, light and heater to be added. Foam on the side is temporary to block the direct sunlight light coming through the window.
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
Oh great! new post from you that I didn't see. Good setup honestly, you replicate what I've been doing in my fry raising setups, add floaters to help with the water chemistry and add fast growing plants like hygrophilia or water sprite/wisteria. For me, I add my old kattappa leaves that are drained of all their tannin just as a hiding place for my baby fish and I've been able to get my apistogramma pair in february at an inch and now it's may and I have around 120 that are ready for sale and are about an inch in size.

Raise the temperature if you want them to grow faster and fed them variety of food, I fed them moina as well as hikari first bites when they're younger and I feed them small mosquito larvae which helps enhance their color. From the pictures they look like a week and a half old to me (after hatching). Slowly add tap water (top off) to slowly increase the pH and tds of the water so that when you eventually rehome these guys they'll be better off in a store tank with local water. Another thing I like to do is raise multiple generations of fry together, they generally seem to feel safer that way and they pick up a few things from older generations.

Let the mulm and detritus build up. I have two amano shrimp in my fry grow out to help with water chemistry (eats the biofilm and detritus). I don't do any water changes, I know people frown upon that but it works for me and all my tanks have zero ammonia nitrite and nitrate due to my plants, water pH, substrate, etc.. I also have found that water changes unnecessarily stress apistos sometimes, yes they can sometimes spawn after an environmental change but generally it is stressful for them. If you are able to get your apistos to breed every week or every other week like I have without even trying, then you will face your own set of problems like ich caused by the stress of raising fry.

Good luck with all of it, on instagram, my handle is YJAquatics if you want to see how I do it and if you would like contact me on there for fish or questions. I've always been grateful to all the youtubers like Blake's aquatics, Dean's fish room, etc.. that have given me a piece of their knowledge and insight to help me personally when I reached out, so I would like to pay that back to this hobby.
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
Thanks for the advice, I reply soon about the purcashe!(Do I buy or how much, you know.)
since you're in Hungary, the shipping would be the most expensive part. Because shipping will be a bit of a hassle and because of international shipping, I will cut the price down for you just in case some don't make it. When buying or selling fish internationally, it's standard practice to not guarante live arrival due to the difficulty of the process. But I've shipped fish before and I have some nice juvenile apistogrammas that have been line bred and some have imported European fish genes.

Pricing:
Shipping I'm not sure because I've never shipped to Eastern Europe where you are but they will make it fine, I'll juts have to prepare the shipping container with styrofoam, heatpacks, double bag everything, insulate it and pay extra attention to it. Sales are slow right now because I missed the first wave of people buying fish after winter. But if you're interested, you can paypal me the money and we'll work something out! I can give you multiple for a bulk discount like 4 or 5 or more. You can buy a trio from me at a low price of 55 USD or you can buy a pair for 45. These prices are really good and I can cut down a bit more if it is out of your range as my primary goal is to share my fish with people who'll enjoy them as much as I have.

If you want to get into specifics, email me at [email protected] or instagram at yjaquatics :)

edit: it's totally fine if you don't purchase, I'm just happy to give you my info and expertise! And I know that there will probably be alternative options for you so do what is best for you and your fish keeping hobby!
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
Thanks for the advice, I reply soon about the purcashe!(Do I buy or how much, you know.)
my fish are also more docile because they've been mixed with wild caught genes several times down the line to strngthen natural markings and behaviors. I breed all my apistos in ten gallons without any aggression issues and without dither fish. The males don't eat the babies as well, if you'd like to see one of my males helping the female move the fry around you could wait around a month before I get another spawn (I've been spawning them way too frequently so they need a bit of a break to fatten up).

Tip: I just thought of this, but make sure that you don't breed them too often. They will start suffering from ich because they suffer a lot from stress and spawning is stressful if done too frequently. That's why you should get multiple pairs to work with. They all have different personalities! It's interesting. One of my males is a really good father while the other one is just the one that left to go get milk and never came back.
 

Aquaticloch

Active Member
Messages
157
Location
Canada eh
my fish are also more docile because they've been mixed with wild caught genes several times down the line to strngthen natural markings and behaviors. I breed all my apistos in ten gallons without any aggression issues and without dither fish. The males don't eat the babies as well, if you'd like to see one of my males helping the female move the fry around you could wait around a month before I get another spawn (I've been spawning them way too frequently so they need a bit of a break to fatten up).
I dont think it's possible to attribute total docility to mixing of genetics, this allows for a larger genetic pool, however wild fish are not more docile than domestic fish, as a whole. This is not something dependent on wild or not fish, however it is highly variable on catch location and each individual in a sample. Often times wilf fish are more competitive, and hence, more aggressive, so more than likely no causation.

I have two amano shrimp in my fry grow out to help with water chemistry (eats the biofilm and detritus). I don't do any water changes, I know people frown upon that but it works for me and all my tanks have zero ammonia nitrite and nitrate due to my plants, water pH, substrate, etc.. I also have found that water changes unnecessarily stress apistos sometimes, yes they can sometimes spawn after an environmental change but generally it is stressful for them. If you are able to get your apistos to breed every week or every other week like I have without even trying, then you will face your own set of problems like ich caused by the stress of raising fry.
Amano shrimp are known fry predators, when i bred Bolivian rams (mikrogeophagus altospinosus) they picked off a large amount of fry before I remove them. Biofilm is also not necessarily a bad thing, fry may feed off microorganisms in the biofilm.

If you reduce the temperature in your tanks, it's likely the fish will breed less. 1 time a week is extremely unhealthy, i cannot stress this enough, . Your fish will live very short lives due to it, imagine living your life in 30 degree weather all year. Years off your life, even without developing ich your fish's organs will have to work harder.
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
Often times wilf fish are more competitive, and hence, more aggressive, so more than likely no causation.
I have a pair of A. Ladislao right now and I've had wild caught agassizii and biatenita before, thy are definitely more aggrssive to othr fish but the aggression between the pair is always female going at the male to breed, nothing else. And I thought it could just be my specific fish but after getting more wild caught ones and ones with wild caught genes, I'm convinced. You do bring up a good point tho, I think they're definitely more territorial as that's what they have to do in the wild so as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't place them in a community tank.

Amano shrimp are known fry predators, when i bred Bolivian rams (mikrogeophagus altospinosus) they picked off a large amount of fry before I remove them. Biofilm is also not necessarily a bad thing, fry may feed off microorganisms in the biofilm.
Yes I'm aware, I'm talking about .25 to .5 inch fry that are too big for my amanos to eat. I haven't lost a single one and both my amanos are female and around 1.75 inches. I place my fry in a breeder box before I put them into the main tank.

If you reduce the temperature in your tanks, it's likely the fish will breed less. 1 time a week is extremely unhealthy, i cannot stress this enough, . Your fish will live very short lives due to it, imagine living your life in 30 degree weather all year. Years off your life, even without developing ich your fish's organs will have to work harder.
I never said anything about reducing temperature, just water changes... and I literally said it's so stressful for them..
 

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