Apistogramma borelli sp. 'Opal'? Steel Blue?

[AndrewPayne007]

Hi all,

I recently bought 4 Apistogramma from my local store and I'm having a tough time identifying their sexes so that I can separate them appropriately. They were sold to me as A. borelli - I assumed from the spotting on their faces that they could be opal but I'm not sure. At first two of them appeared to be more yellow in the belly area while the other two looked slightly larger with pointier pelvic and dorsal fins. I thought I was in good shape.

A few weeks later and I think I may have 4 males and I'm not even sure if they're all borelli... or if any of them are. The biggest one (pictured following this paragraph) has a lot of spots on his face and looks more to me like pictures of young steel blues than borelli. I'm 99% sure it's a boy, but I have no idea whether the others are female and/or are the same species.

(Suspected steel blue. Better photos to follow)

The 2nd and 3rd fish are similarly marked and are subject to a lot of aggressive attention from the suspected steel blue. I tried to sequester each possible pair to see how they would interact/colour up. None of them like one another much. These two (picture below)lose out to the suspected steel blue but seem to scare off the 4th fish.

(2nd and 3rd fish. Borelli females?)

Finally the last fish (pictured below) seems to get bullied a lot - to the point where it hides behind the moss wall in its tank. At first I thought it was a male because it has a whiteish belly. But it's also the shortest of the four...

(Little fish, gets bullied)

If anyone is able to I.D. their sexes/species I would really appreciate it! I would really like to take care of these fish to the best of my ability, but it's not easy to do when I can't tell who's who or what's what!

Thanks!

 

[Justmeingardner]

Hi Andrew,
New here and to apistos as well. Am answering because your fish look an AWFUL lot like some wild Apistogramma Eunotus (orange-tail, I believe) that I recently acquired. The one difference that stands out to me is mine didn't/don't have the blue speckling on the forehead, but on cheeks only. Dorsal fin, vertical bar pattern, eye-stripe and spot at base of tail all look identical. Then again, maybe all young apistos look like this? lol There are many experts here (as I'm sure you know already...lol), hopefully one of them can help you out.

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Hi Andrew,
New here and to apistos as well. Am answering because your fish look an AWFUL lot like some wild Apistogramma Eunotus (orange-tail, I believe) that I recently acquired. The one difference that stands out to me is mine didn't/don't have the blue speckling on the forehead, but on cheeks only. Dorsal fin, vertical bar pattern, eye-stripe and spot at base of tail all look identical. Then again, maybe all young apistos look like this? lol There are many experts here (as I'm sure you know already...lol), hopefully one of them can help you out.

Hmmm... I agree it's possible that they are eunotus... they definitely look like they're all from the regani group to me... it's so hard to tell a lot of these fish apart. To me it looks like the first one is a different species or complex than the latter three... the stripes are different. The first one has pretty simple/straight striping whereas the latter three have these 'Y' shapes at the top of the stripes nearest the head. My A. wangenflecken have that too... I think Mike Wise was able to I.D. my wangenflecken a few years ago based on this and a couple of other characteristics (http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/apistogramma-i-d.14897/). There's also variance in the size and shape of the tail spots from specimen to specimen. I don't know if that means anything about what they are or not. Maybe the other three are wangenflecken too... I'm pretty sure they're all regani-group and that the last 3 are resticulosa complex but that's based purely on the last time I got Mike to I.D. my fish!!!

It would probably help if I could get better pictures... There are so many branches and hiding spots at the bottom of their tank it took 2 and half hours to catch any of them. I'll give it another shot in the morning in the hopes that I can get them identified. If I can't I'm just going to give them away since a friend of mine has offered to get me a sexed group of A. baenschi!

Haha - thanks for the reply and happy fishkeeping Justmeingarder!

 

[Justmeingardner]

Well, good luck, Andrew. If it were me, part of me would want to keep them to see what they really are! The other part, of course, would want to have fish that I could definitely identify...lol. Seems like you have a better handle on ID than I am capable of...just don't have the knowledge or likely the patience to sort through so many factors. Pictures may come easier after they settle in a bit. Mine are now out looking for food, while my dithers wouldn't dither ;-). So for now they have tank to selves, and they still come out because they recognize me as the "Giant Food Dispenser". I'll have to keep watching thread to see what Mike Wise or some of the others think...have a great Memorial Day weekend!

 

[Chromedome]

These appear to be Apistogramma "Steel Blue". They are often sold as borelli. Apisto. borelli "Opal" has red reticulations on the face. The heavy blue markings on the face are generally a dead giveaway for "Steel Blue".

 

[AndrewPayne007]

These appear to be Apistogramma "Steel Blue". They are often sold as borelli. Apisto. borelli "Opal" has red reticulations on the face. The heavy blue markings on the face are generally a dead giveaway for "Steel Blue".

Do you think they're ALL steel blue or just the first one? The first one is markedly different from the latter three - it's vertical striping is simple compared to their 'Y' shaped striping. It's face is way more heavily blue. The spot on it's tail is more rounded and doesn't extend from the top to the bottom of the base of the tail like it does for the others. I think I have one steel blue and three wangenflecken.

Any thoughts on their sexes?

Thanks guys!

 

[Mike Wise]

I see only 1 species for all. I also agree with Chromedome: A. sp. Steel-blue. Nice thing is that it looks like you have both sexes. Females still seem to be rare in this species.

 

[AndrewPayne007]

I see only 1 species for all. I also agree with Chromedome: A. sp. Steel-blue. Nice thing is that it looks like you have both sexes. Females still seem to be rare in this species.

Thanks Mike! Does it look like 1:3 M to F? How the heck do I tell?!

 

[JS kim]

hi andrew
The right steelblue
Males have a dark metallic net in the face
Like your first photo
sp.steelblue're known as hybrids

 

[Mike Wise]

We are not absolutely positive that the Steel-blue is a hybrid, but it is a good possibility. Sexing isn't always easy, but females have more rounded posterior tips on the dorsal and anal fins, less strongly marked caudal pattern, a slightly deeper body, and usually less colorful.

 

[gerald]

... and so do subordinate males trying to avoid aggression (except for the deeper body shape). I hope you do have some females; time will tell.

... females have more rounded posterior tips on the dorsal and anal fins, less strongly marked caudal pattern, a slightly deeper body, and usually less colorful.

 

[AndrewPayne007]

... and so do subordinate males trying to avoid aggression (except for the deeper body shape). I hope you do have some females; time will tell.

One is definitely a female. She colours up that classic apisto female yellow whenever that first one (with the heavily marked face) is around - especially when she is sequestered but can still see him. She's the second one in the photos above. The first one chases all three of the other ones all around the tank... He's particularly violent with the 3rd and 4th ones. I don't really know what to think at this point. I think I may see if anyone around here wants them and try to get a sexed pair of actual borelli or trifasciata.