Another newbie needing advice

[Gingercat]

Hi! I'm new to the board and new to apistogrammas, so new that I'm still cycling (with a few platies and Bio-spira) the 50 gal tank they will eventually go in. I have a pair of orange flash cacs, currently in a 10 gal with some potted plants and a few oak leaves and broken pots. For the 50 gal tank, I've put peat in the filter and a lot of oak leaves. The substrate is black sand over fluorite, and there are a few plants and slate caves. pH in the tank is 7.1 (7.6 out of the tap), GH is 6 or 107 ppm (8 out of the tap).

I've read a number of other posts on this board, and am disappointed to find out that I may not be able to have any other apistos in with the cacs. I was hoping that a 50 gal would be large enough for two or three different pairs or trios, plus some dither fish and a dwarf pleco (an L66). Are there other dwarf cichlids, if not apistos, that would live peacefully with the cacs? And are hatchetfish really the best dither fish? I had hoped to use cardinal tetras.

Any advice you could give me would be most appreciated.

 

[LyreTail]

I am curious about this as well. I thought you could mix a whole lot of different apistos in a tank as long as you get all males ( takes away breeding aggression factor ) and you over crowd them like African rift lakes cichlids ( aggression dispersion)

Hatchet fish might make good ditherers

 

[Cichlid Junkie]

I am curious as well. I have heard of people useing cardinal tetras as well as mollys, pencile fish and hatchet fish.

 

[ARWoodi]

Having 2 or more different species in a tank, be it only males or mix is always at risk by aggression by "strong" species. From my experience the "mix" can only be done if they were all introduce in the same tank when they are at of very young age, but even with that even amongst sibblings they will also fight.

I also notice with "mix" species in a tank also hinders them from displaying their colours except when flaring at each other.

Dither fish is good to use when you want you apisto to come out from it's hiding place and also it is use to distract them from fights.

My dither fishes are mainly killies( Lampeys and clown) and rasboras

 

[fishgeek]

try for fish with differing body shape if wanting to mix apisto'/dwarfs
ie rams and regani complex, not 2 from regani complex
leave 2 sq ft area, as a rough rule for each male, females can fit into this territory at twice the density

others are better at the choices of mix

apisto's will be found in large numbers in small area's though generally a limited number of species
i hvae had more than one species in a tank though not for long and the smaller fish was harrased
they share the same area in the tank so competion for best territory will always be present

dither fish can be anything that is not shy , they are used to get the fish out from their hiding
see food and encourage feeding
divert aggression
encourage pair bonding and parental protection of the fry

or at least some of these
if use fast moving tetra's you will find them extremely capable fry hunters and you chances of raising fry will be lessened
if you dont intend to breed choose any active mid to surface ater fish that is not large

andrew

 

[Mike Wise]

I think that the issue is whether or not you want to successfully breed your apistos. If breeding is important then one species of apisto in a tank is the way to go. Dither/target fish are fine as long as they are not fry predators. That is why I perfer pencilfish. Not only are the fast enough to avoid apisto parents & have small mouths with little chance of eating fry, they - unlike hatchetfishes - are not schooling fish & can do well as one or two specimens. Hatchetfishes tend to be more 'skittish' if not kept in larger schools. If the tank is large, it is possible to keep 2 different breeding groups of dwarf cichlids in tanks over 1m/4' long. Ideally they should be 2 very different species, e.g. 1 cave spawner & 1 open substrate breeder. The more robust & polygamous apisto species like A. cacatuoides will breed well in this type of situation with species of Laetacara. The idea is that the 2 species are not using the same type of breeding site. Still 2 apisto species of similar size & temperament, but different species-groups, can usually be kept and will reproduce in the same tank as long as the tank is aquascaped so that there are clearly defined boundaries & there is no place where one fish can see across the entire length of the tank.

If you aren't interested in breeding your fish, the mixing several apistos species with similar temperaments & size with other fish is quite possible. Right now I use my living room community tank to house my 'retired' apisto males. They are living very peacefully with a mixture of small tetras, Rasboras, cory & Farlowella catfish.

 

[Apistt_ed]

Hello everyone,
In my opinion, there are always possibilities with other apistos as long as the tank space permits it. I wouldn't rule out the chances for other apistos in your tank as I have multiple species in a tank and they do very well together. I would say that even with your water parameters as is, I'd add a trio or a pair of A. Borellii They have been successfully bred in water close to yours and they are "timid" enough. I put timid in there because no matter what is said, they are still cichlids and they will always have some kind of aggression but borellii are far less aggressive towards their own conspecifics. In a 50 gallon I wouldn't go with more than two species, a total of 2 trios or just 2 pairs. The males' territories will generally overlap but the need is in the females when they spawn and need the room to raise their fry. As for dithers, I love killies, hatchet fish (marble or silver), pencilfish, white clouds, and the much needed famed in the apisto world, the oto cats. I find that some platys get far too aggressive! I even once had a female platy that believed she was a female Cacatuoides!! I swear by it because she was very aggressive and chased all the female apistos away (from the males and spawning sites) and proceded to court the males. The males unknowingly didn't think anything of it and went along with the whole ordeal. I wouldn't ever use platys anymore.. don't get me wrong, they are great little fish too, but I have found them to be even far too aggressive for my apistos. I hope this has helped a little...


john

 

[Gingercat]

Yes, this is a big help. Thank you. The platies will be out of the tank just as soon as it's cycled, which should be very soon as I'm using Bio-spira. I just didn't want the apistos to be stressed during the cycling, in case the Bio-spira wasn't alive. Turns out that it was, and I think the tank will be ready this weekend.

I was originally going to get Ap Hongsloi, but the ones I'd prepaid for came down with ich. Only the guy in the LFS diagnosed it as hole in the head disease and talked me into buying the orange flash cacs instead. The LFS now has Ap. agassizi Sanatrem, Ap juruensis, Ap macmasteri Bluehead, Ap nijsseni, Ap piauiensis Red/Blue, Ap trifasciata Macilienis, Taeniacara candida, and Ap borelli. Is the borelli still the best choice as the other apistos in my tank, or would a couple or trio of one of the others be better?

If I can find them, I think I'll go with non-annual killies as the dither. Thanks for the suggestion. Need to read up more about them, though! And I'll get otos for sure.

And any problems with adding an L66 pleco to the mix?