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A. sp. "Abacaxis" parasites?

Manuel_P

New Member
Hello,
when I got my wild caught Apistogramma "Abacaxis", the female was very skinny (even had a sunken belly), dark and shy.
After treating her for worms three weeks ago she colored up a bit, behaves normally and gained a bit of weight. But she still does not eagerly eat anything. She currently really likes BBS, but ignores pretty much everything else. I tried tubifex and white mosquito larvae for the past weeks, trying to get her to eat those instead of only bbs. The female is eating a few white mosquito larvae everyday, bot not as agressively and not as many as all my other Apistos.

I repeated the deworming Nematol yesterday.
Pic shows her poop today

Her poop is still mostly white for now. But what worries me the most is that she is so picky.
Do you think I should treat her for protozoans as well? Or should I just try to fatten her up? Any other Ideas?

I never had a problem like this before.

Thank you in advance
Manuel
 

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MacZ

Active Member
If Nematol has had no effect, wait 2-3 days before you you use Flagellol (Yes I know my Sera products.). During the treatment with Flagellol don't feed and after the treatment start with something she doesn't take readily right now.

Stay away from tubifex, though, except freezedried (feed those soaked). Live tubifex are one of the most frequent sources of diseases in live and frozen foods. Did you try the mosquito larvae alive or frozen?
 

Ttw

Active Member
5 Year Member
White stringy poop is a pretty nonspecific symptom. A number of different parasites can cause this. A common parasite that can infect a stressed wild fish or in fact any stressed fish is hexamita. Instead of guessing and giving medications that may or not be the correct one, consider getting an inexpensive microscope and look at the poop. That will give you a good idea of which parasite you are dealing with.
 

MacZ

Active Member
White stringy poop is a pretty nonspecific symptom. A number of different parasites can cause this. A common parasite that can infect a stressed wild fish or in fact any stressed fish is hexamita. Instead of guessing and giving medications that may or not be the correct one, consider getting an inexpensive microscope and look at the poop. That will give you a good idea of which parasite you are dealing with.

In principle a good advice, but the OP and I live in Europe, there is not much choice of meds available legally here. If their Nematol treatment didn't work, Flagellol is the only actually working med against inner parasites (Flagellates and Hexamita) you can get here without consulting a vet. Many like Praziquantel and other dewormers are only available via a vet and getting a vet to prescribe anything for fish is like winning the lottery.
So even with a diagnose via microscope there is not much we can do if the parasites belong to certain classes.
 
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MacZ

Active Member
Understood. Limits your options.

Absolutely. I'm all for the regulation of antibiotics, but especially the ban on worm meds has had some bad impact in fishkeeping. Gill- and skinflukes, tapeworm and the like are almost untreatable nowerdays and for some other stuff they limited options and some of the remaining meds only have 50:50 chances to work and many are more likely to kill the fish than the disease/parasite.
Boiling it down, basically only ich, camallanus, nematodes, flagellates and hexamita can be treated safely and reliably when living in the EU.

But, alas, at least we're not in Canada.
 
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Flyfan

New Member
Please forgive my question if it seems silly, but what was the rational of banning the worm meds? Is it some post use environmental consequences? Or something else?
 

MacZ

Active Member
Please forgive my question if it seems silly, but what was the rational of banning the worm meds? Is it some post use environmental consequences? Or something else?

It was not because they are worm meds, but because EU regulations don't distinguish between meds for food fish and ornamental fish. The stuff was regulated due to use in farm fish for human consumption being deemed problematic for human health. Antibiotics also fell under environmental regulations, though.

There was a whole number of meds for animals that fell under the new law and so they got banned or regulated. You can still get the regulated meds via a veterinarian. Problem is, there are virtually none that treat fish. The average vet treats all pets except fish, amphibians and reptiles. Accordingly they don't prescribe any meds for fish. Unless one has the fortune of a vet being a hobbyist as well, it's virtually impossible.

The bans and regulations are in effect for some years now. I think the last round of bans was 2017, the biggest one in 2013.
 

Flyfan

New Member
It was not because they are worm meds, but because EU regulations don't distinguish between meds for food fish and ornamental fish. The stuff was regulated due to use in farm fish for human consumption being deemed problematic for human health. Antibiotics also fell under environmental regulations, though.

There was a whole number of meds for animals that fell under the new law and so they got banned or regulated. You can still get the regulated meds via a veterinarian. Problem is, there are virtually none that treat fish. The average vet treats all pets except fish, amphibians and reptiles. Accordingly they don't prescribe any meds for fish. Unless one has the fortune of a vet being a hobbyist as well, it's virtually impossible.

The bans and regulations are in effect for some years now. I think the last round of bans was 2017, the biggest one in 2013.
Thank you. While I'm not a fan of Gov. regulations, sometimes it's for the best.
 

MacZ

Active Member
Thank you. While I'm not a fan of Gov. regulations, sometimes it's for the best.

You're welcome. To me always depending on what is regulated.
IMO the regulation of antibiotics was actually a blessing, the number of multiresistant bacteria strains in the trade has gone down again since. At least here. I have no sympathy for people getting expensive hard antibiotics for a single overbred 1€-guppy with dropsy or a moribund "rescued" big box store veiltail betta.
 

Uncle.Ned

New Member
5 Year Member
I like Praziquantel and Metronidazole ("General Cure" in USA). The first is a fluke killer and a killer of some worms. The second is a Hexamita killer. Neither will hurt the fish.
 

MacZ

Active Member
Both are regulated and have to be prescribed in Europe.
I just checked, vets are only even allowed to prescribe Praziquantel for cats, dogs and reptiles.

Metronidazole is similarly regulated and has to be prescribed, though there is no regulation keeping vets from prescribing it for fish. Also metro is highly aggressive on the fishes kidneys, and a treatment of less than three days is advised by most manufacturers.
 
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