A. macmasteri Biotope Info

[luisramos126]

@Mazan Check out this video

 

[puertoayacucho1]

Hi Mazan. This happens with all frequency...reporting things from an area where a species is first collected and acknowledged, and not necessarily updating.
More than fish species, with aquatic plants, it happens much more.

For many years I searched for naturally occurring Symphysodon (Discus fish) in Venezuela, only to find loads of Pterophyllum altum in a much broader than expected range. Not a single naturally occurring Symphysodon in Venezuela as far as I found.

Heiko Bleher, for years, wrote about the species (P.altum) being found exclusively in the Rio Atabapo, a tributary of the Orinoco.

Today we know P.altum can be found from upstream of Sao Gabriel Do Cachoiera on the Middle Rio Negro, all the way up into the beginning of the Lower Orinoco.

It took a lot of making people curious, and now, there is more updated information on this particular species.

I was pretty involved in the matter having seen altum in several different tributaries. Heiko, years later, went and saw for himself and updated his info, and spread the word. Hence today, you will read about the Rio Atabapo Altum, the Rio Negro Altum, the Rio Ventuari Altum, the Rio Vichada Altum, the Rio Inirida Altum, and so on and on. They are one and the same species with minor locality variations.

Ivan Mikolji has been a critical element that has helped enormously by documenting on film all underwater in Venezuela and Colombia.

Ok, let's get back to helping Luis set up his nice Rio Metica biotope...cos we're anxious for pics!

Sorry for the off topic comments

 

[MacZ]

Heiko Bleher, for years, wrote about the species (P.altum) being found exclusively in the Rio Atabapo, a tributary of the Orinoco.
....
I was pretty involved in the matter having seen altum in several different tributaries. Heiko, years later, went and saw for himself and updated his info, and spread the word. Hence today, you will read about the Rio Atabapo Altum, the Rio Negro Altum, the Rio Ventuari Altum, the Rio Vichada Altum, the Rio Inirida Altum, and so on and on. They are one and the same species with minor locality variations.

He's a mixed bag, but bottom line I tend to agree with him on many things, because he is not above correcting himself. Here in Germany he's a living legend.

Ivan Mikolji has been a critical element that has helped enormously by documenting on film all underwater in Venezuela and Colombia.

Yes!

Ok, let's get back to helping Luis set up his nice Rio Metica biotope...cos we're anxious for pics!

Agreed!

Sorry for the off topic comments

I think I speak for most of the usual suspects here, if I say it is refreshing to have some relevant and informative off-topic for once.

 

[luisramos126]

Sorry for the off topic comments

You do not need to said sorry, I think you bring a good POV and off topic comments help to involve more people to the conversation.

About Althernanthera reineckii, I think to keep it red, I will need a stronger light and probably CO2 or I am wrong?

 

[puertoayacucho1]

Hi Luis, I remember a friend in Maracaibo (State of Zulia, Northwestern Venezuela) had a tank with very red A. reineckii that immediately caught my eye. He simply used a fluorescent plant-grow bulb, nothing too fancy. LED lighting was not a thing yet. He had no supplementary CO2 as far as I can remember. Actually it was that same friend (Fernando Rios), that pointed to me where to find this particular plant not too far of a drive from Maracaibo.
I remember collecting A. reineckii in a creek with a not so slow current, growing near the river banks and around rocks and boulders in shallow water. This area was exposed to the sun, and the plants would sway along with the current.
In the same general area, the Catatumbo region, famous for it's perpetual all year around lightning, I also found the largest Echinodorus species that I had ever seen, probably a variety of E. cordifoluis going by leaf shape, but the aerial form was at around 4 feet in height from the base of the stem. I would bring some of those in only for clients who had really large aquariums. We had E. quadricostatus to the North of Zulia and into the Magdalena Basin on the Colombian side of the border. E. quadricostatus is another plant you can consider. As well as the smaller carpeting microsword, Lilaeopsis, which I found along with Althernanthera. There you have a beautiful contrast of bright green and reds...what a Christmas tank!
Lilaeopsis can even grow over the builders, as long as some water can cover it throughout the day.

 

[luisramos126]

Here is where I want to do the biotope.
I am planning to add one pair of A. macmasteri and probably some Corydora melini or some tetras (Neon, green neon, cardenal, or emperor tetras). But also, open for suggestion.

Tank measurements
36" L x 24" W x 18" H = 91cm

 

[Mazan]

Althernanthera reineckii, I think to keep it red, I will need a stronger light and probably CO2

I thought that as well, the same for Cabomba furcata, but maybe its possible with normal light and no CO2, worth a try perhaps.

 

[luisramos126]

I thought that as well, the same for Cabomba furcata, but maybe its possible with normal light and no CO2, worth a try perhaps.

I have two 30W (3800 Lumens) flood lights, maybe are enough to keep som A. reineckii red. I will try keep them in the same area.

 

[Mazan]

Corydora melini or some tetras (Neon, green neon, cardenal, or emperor tetras)

I don't think any if these species would really be appropriate if you want to do an accurate biotope, definitely not emperor tetras, maybe check the lists of species on the papers I posted (one was the same that you found) as well as the videos that have been linked. I believe Corydoras melini is a blackwater species, I also believe its not generally a good idea to have Corydoras with a potentially breeding pair of Apistogrammas, if you just had one Apistogramma it would be OK.

 

[luisramos126]

As well as the smaller carpeting microsword, Lilaeopsis, which I found along with Althernanthera.

I like this one because I can used as little patch. I have some swords in another tank. E. grandiflorus and E. grisebachii.

 

[luisramos126]

I don't think any if these species would really be appropriate if you want to do an accurate biotope, definitely not emperor tetras, maybe check the lists of species on the papers I posted (one was the same that you found) as well as the videos that have been linked. I believe Corydoras melini is a blackwater species, I also believe its not generally a good idea to have Corydoras with a potentially breeding pair of Apistogrammas, if you just had one Apistogramma it would be OK.

Thanks!
I checked here https://tropicalfreshwaterfish.com/data/Colombia.htm

I looked the video you post it here, but Hemigrammus sp. I don't know if I can found some this species. Maybe Glowlight tetras, but they are from Essequibo River, Guyana.
I will need to look deeper on which tetra I can use.

 

[Mazan]

Thanks!
I checked here https://tropicalfreshwaterfish.com/data/Colombia.htm

I looked the video you post it here, but Hemigrammus sp. I don't know if I can found some this species. Maybe Glowlight tetras, but they are from Essequibo River, Guyana.
I will need to look deeper on which tetra I can use.

Yes, that link is for Colombia in general but there are many different river systems, a few that are listed for the Meta drainage that may be easy to find include Hyphessobrycon sweglesi (Red phantom tetra), Axelrodia riesei (ruby tetra) and Hyphessobrycon metae (purple tetra). You might also consider Copella arnoldi (splashing tetra), Copella eigenmanni or Nanostomus eques. Corydoras axelrodi is listed. Of course I am not sure if these would all be found exactly where A. macmasteri is, but at least they are from the same drainage system, there will be others, I just had a quick skim of the papers....

 

[Mazan]

Here is another paper that lists more species from the Rio Meta

 

[anewbie]

You do not need to said sorry, I think you bring a good POV and off topic comments help to involve more people to the conversation.

About Althernanthera reineckii, I think to keep it red, I will need a stronger light and probably CO2 or I am wrong?

I haven't tried Althernanthera yet but other plants i've tried in the blackwater environment grow extremely well (other softwater plants to be precise as hardwater plants it is not so true). The plant experts are telling me this is happening because the very low ph of the tanks are absorbing a lot more co2 causing greater growth. Please note that while perhaps incorrect i do not associate tannis level with blackwater rather i think in terms of hardness and ph. My typical aquarium has ec between 20 and 45 (and to be honest i do not know why some have higher ec) and ph i have measured as low as in the 4s.

I've posted this in my threads but here is one aquarium over 7 or 8 months showing plant growth with zero fertilizer:


You can see that many of the plants are growing too fast though the tiny buce on right front is not growing so fast.



Unfortunately i pay little attention to 'biotope' which means something else to me as specific plant, current and other factors which i lack an attention to details.
-
The point is that as long as the plant can grow well with little mineral adding co2 would be a bad mistake. I will note from first hand experience that changing environment can cause a horrible impact on plants and great amount of algae that can take 1 to 2 years to bring back into balance.

Another issue with myself is i happily violate 'biotopes' by using rasbora and crypts which would never be found in the amazon as well as anubia. So you can see if a purist saw my aquarium they would string me up and i would suffer greatly.

 

[luisramos126]

Here is another paper that lists more species from the Rio Meta

Many thanks!

I haven't tried Althernanthera yet but other plants i've tried in the blackwater environment grow extremely well (other softwater plants to be precise as hardwater plants it is not so true). The plant experts are telling me this is happening because the very low ph of the tanks are absorbing a lot more co2 causing greater growth. Please note that while perhaps incorrect i do not associate tannis level with blackwater rather i think in terms of hardness and ph. My typical aquarium has ec between 20 and 45 (and to be honest i do not know why some have higher ec) and ph i have measured as low as in the 4s.

I've posted this in my threads but here is one aquarium over 7 or 8 months showing plant growth with zero fertilizer:
View attachment 15326

You can see that many of the plants are growing too fast though the tiny buce on right front is not growing so fast.

View attachment 15327

Unfortunately i pay little attention to 'biotope' which means something else to me as specific plant, current and other factors which i lack an attention to details.
-
The point is that as long as the plant can grow well with little mineral adding co2 would be a bad mistake. I will note from first hand experience that changing environment can cause a horrible impact on plants and great amount of algae that can take 1 to 2 years to bring back into balance.

Another issue with myself is i happily violate 'biotopes' by using rasbora and crypts which would never be found in the amazon as well as anubia. So you can see if a purist saw my aquarium they would string me up and i would suffer greatly.

Thanks, newbie. Yes, I have one like that with many plants: Crypto, Anubis, and Echinodorus, but all of them are not red. They grow very well, but I never had red plants because they demand more intense light, like red root floaters, to be red. If they don't have intense light, they are still healthy and growing but green.

But I am going to try some of the A. reineckii.

 

[luisramos126]

Many thanks!

Thanks, newbie. Yes, I have one like that with many plants: Crypto, Anubis, and Echinodorus, but all of them are not red. They grow very well, but I never had red plants because they demand more intense light, like red root floaters, to be red. If they don't have intense light, they are still healthy and growing but green.

But I am going to try some of the A. reineckii.

@Mazan
@puertoayacucho1
Update...

I am going with some boulders, rocks and a lot of leaf litter including some small branches. White sand with some small dark gravel.

Plants: Alternanthera reineckii, Echinodorus grisebachii, Limnobium laevigatum, and microsword.
I am not going with a heavy planted aquarium.

Fish: A. macmasteri, red phantom tetra, and nannostomus mortenthaleri (the one that I found at my local fish shop).

Any suggestions, like things I should add or remove?

 

[puertoayacucho1]

A nice comfy chair... camera... think of us maybe!

 

[rasmusW]

Plan sounds good, but i don’t think morthenthaleri is found naturally with macs.
-but sounds like a great looking tank no matter.

-r

 

[Mazan]

N. mortenthaleri are from Peru, but never mind it should be a nice setup anyway, everything else seems good....


Edir - posted at the same time as rasmusW!

 

[luisramos126]

N. mortenthaleri are from Peru, but never mind it should be a nice setup anyway, everything else seems good....


Edir - posted at the same time as rasmusW!

Yes, I will try to look for the N. eques, let see. I will keep you'll posted.

Thanks for all the help.