A.viejita

[kris apistogramma]

what is the best way to tell a mac and viejita apart?
and do macs posses the deep blotch on the belly when ready to spawn like the viejita

 

[regani]

If you do a search on this site you will find several threads where the issue of A. viejita has been discussed, this includes some of the characteristics that distinguish the species as well as links to pictures of the true viejita

 

[Mike Wise]

All of the macmasteri-complex species can show some darkening of the abdomen when in threat/courting display to varying degrees. This is not really a diagnostic feature.

 

[kris apistogramma]

the reason im am asking is because the lateral line on this boy no longer shows even when that dark blotch is gone is this normal the blotch itself is only a resent thing with him and i have been on toms page his wording is that a.viejita only have that spot on the belly but as you stated some macs do aswell im so confused i mean where has the line gone :/ help lol

 

[Ruki]

Like I said about this fish at Apistogramma group at FaceBook. First look at shape of body- A. viejita is the most slender Apisto from A. macmasteri subcomplex, your fish is really bulky(and that hump on head ). Next you should look at shape of caudal fin- A. viejita should have round, no truncate like with extensions. Only thing that this fish "have" from A. viejita are extensions of anal and dorsal fins- they are extended more than edge of caudal fin.
For me those features are the best to distinguish A. viejita nad A. macmasteri. Fast and you don't have to rely on fish mood to see a colouration, shape of lateral band or caudal spot.

 

[Rod]

Surely there is some drug lords out there that like fish, who can get their lackies to collect some real viejita
Get them into the hobby
I would love to see a thread with someone posting photos.....who actually have the "real deal"!!!

 

[kris apistogramma]

so as his dorsal and anal fin are longer than the tail im guessing that is not a common thing with macs but with viejita it is common?? his caudal has no extension how ever it is spade like very strange and as for the spot he has frys with both females in the super territory he has made in the tank i still dont understand how he can have the black spot i have read toms page about the male found in the usa and in that it states that the spot on belly is a.viejita markings is this not correct either? i would love to see the real deal or was the fish itself a spin off from a.macmasteri caught by someone else and named differently who knows but all this info about how rare one is and the other not so leads to my conclusion being correct??

 

[regani]

The fin extensions can depend on the individual fish and some breeders select for this. I have had macmasteri that developed fin extensions over time quite a bit longer than in your picture

 

[Mike Wise]

Kris, the photo of you fish shows features (body depth, dorsal fin shape/coloration, and caudal shape that are consistent with A. macmasteri, not A. viejita. Rolo Kipper had the true A. viejita many years ago and has photos of both sexes at http://www.apistogramma.net/apistogramma/apistogramma_viejita.html. As much as you and many other hobbyists would wish it was true, this fish is not A. viejita.

 

[kris apistogramma]

as i said i am not fussed that he may not be viejita nor am i bothered that he may be a macmasteri i just don't understand how one species of fish is not available in the trade yet there are others in the trade that are virtually extinct in the wild e.g cherry barb and so readily available how can it be possible and did they just die out or what and what's to say they haven't cross bred with macs as it is possible so is there a true mac out there or have they too disappeared from the trade!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

i just don't understand how one species of fish is not available in the trade yet there are others in the trade that are virtually extinct in the wild

Because Apistogramma are a minority interest, don't sell for large money and are not that easy to breed in large amounts, away from the "bread and butter" fish they tend not be that available, and often where they are it is as a by-catch from other fish.

The problem with re-collecting the true A. viejita is the one "Rod" mentions, they occur in an area where there is no commercial fish collection and no effective governmental control, meaning that it is too dangerous for a non-commercial collection.

In the UK a few people had/have Apistogramma "Schwarzkehl", which was originally described as a form of A. viejita. Details here: <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/photos-of-a-schwarzkehl.11740/>, but I've no idea if it is still in captivity.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

Wild A. macmasteri are commonly imported into the hobby because they occur in and around Villavicencio, which is controled by the Colombian government. A. viejita is found only 50 miles outside of Villavicencio - in an area controled by the FARC (Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia - the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia—People's Army. No one who goes into FARC territory is sure that they come out. Simple.