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Different apistos in community tank - males and females

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
Good morning,

I am new to apistogrammas and to aquarism in general.
First acquired a small (1 inch or so), supposedly male, apisto sp abacaxis.
3 weeks later I acquired 1 pair of Borelli, quite big, and 2 small males 1 Elizabethae and 1 Cacatuoides.
First the Abacaxis chased to other 2 small males for 1-2 days, but afterwards became very shy and reclusive, lives hiding on back of the tank. And now the only fish that it creates some trouble is the female borelli, which despite being almost twice as big gets intimidated by the abacaxis.
Looking at some pictures, I am now believing that this Abacaxis is a female and not a male. It is still very small, but I don't see any black strip, when angry it becames somehow yellow and has black fins. I would take a picture, but it is always hiding now.
Question for the group: if this Abacaxis is indeed a female, will it create trouble with the Borelli female? And will this prevent the pair from breeding?
The other 2 males live quite well together, the Elizabethae sometimes runs after the Cacatuoides but not very aggressively. The Borelli male ignores everyone else and vice-versa (ok, he is 3x bigger).
My tank is 100cmx55cmx50cm, 250liter (~65 gallons) and has 4 angels, some neons, some corydoras and 4 colisas.

best regards

Marcelo
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Welcome to the forum. You seem to have a very 'busy' aquarium. My guess is that the A. sp. Abacaxis, being the first apisto in the tank, thinks that the entire bottom is his territory and tries to move all of the other apistos out of it. Based just on the behavior of the fish, my guess is that it is not set up with visual boundaries that break up the aquarium bottom into distinct territories. The female A. borellii is trying to establish a breeding territory, too, but doesn't seem too successful right now. Unless she can do this, it is unlikely that the pair will successfully breed. The apistos aren't the only problem. If the A. borellii every breed the cory cats, angelfish, and even the neons will try (and probably succeed) to eat most of the eggs/fry. People here get tired of me saying this, but it is true: a community tank is not a (good) breeding tank.
 

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
Hi Mike,

Thanks for you reply.
Indeed there is a lot of stuff to break the visual boundaries in the tank. It is moderately planted, has a large wood piece in the middle and I have set up some clay pots and stone caves around. In my view, there is the pre and post wood zone, and the pre wood zone has like 2 caves and 3 pots. But I may be wrong on how much this is really working out. Please see below a picture from 2 months ago, before the apistos came in. The only thing that changed is that I included the clay pots and re-arranged the stones to create some caves.
As far as breeding, I am more interested in just having the fry around a couple of days for the children to see it.
With that objective, I got the Borelli pair because I heard was one of the easiest fish to breed in a community tank.

best regards,

Marcelo
DSC_1422.jpg
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
It looks like a nice tank and should be fine for what you want. If any of the aggression bothers you or causes damage to any of the fish, just remove the aggressor for a few days. That usually settles things down.
 

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
thanks.
At this point, the 3 clear males are fine.
the Abacaxis (still in doubt if it is she or he) keeps living on the back, but takes care of all the hear of the tank as if it was its. I haven't seen any real aggression towards any of the fish.
The female borelli is what concerns me. Never close to the male, always in the corner and with a very shy attitude.
 

Vijendra

New Member
Messages
16
My borellii opal pair bred in a community setup, it had 4-5 other borellis (both opal and yellow face) in the tank (dimensions- 36"*18"*18") along with threadfins, rasboras and neons. Had seperated the pot in which the female had laid the eggs along with the female to a breeding box attached to the tank... Left the female in the box till the fries were free swimming and then raised them seperately myself without any problems.... Your tank seems too small to house more than 1 species (just my opinion based on my little experience with keeping this wonderful species), I was having problems keeping 2-3 borellii males in the above mentioned tank as they were quite agressive with each other, lip-locking and pushing each other every alternate day......
 

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
Vijendra,

My thank is indeed similar to yours: 39x21x21 inches
I had a similar thought but concluded the opposite: holding more males from different species would spread the aggression and some would not even recognize others as competitors.
So far, funny that the only specimen that has been aggressive seriously is the (now believed to be) female that was the single apisto in the tank until 2 weeks ago. She considers almost 50% of the tank as her territory and gets very nasty when anyother is around (except the "giant" borelli male)
The other males just flare to each other but don't even waste the time to run after each other.

thanks a lot

Marcelo
 

madmike

Member
Messages
52
Location
Norway
Have you tried moving the decorations around when adding new fish to the tank? This helps remove the old territories set by the first fish, so that all of the tank is up for grabs.
 

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
to some extent yes...but it seems that the Abacaxis has defined that anything behind or to the left of the driftwood is its territory. It would be necessary to take the driftwood out, which is not my preference.
I will give it a few more weeks to become sociable, in case not I likely will give it back for the store.
 

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
Hi, I have been away for almost 2 months but have some news.
I finally got to remove the Abacaxis from the tank, it was difficulty but did it. Returned her to the LFS.
Also acquired a small (1-2cm) more female borelli as the other one seems quite old.
Things have changed quite a bit.
In the first week or so, the tank was very calm.
But now, the Cacatuoides male grew up and is the new king of the tank. He hunts the male Paucisquamis (it was not an Elizabethae in the end) whenever they see each other. But he tolerates the Borellis quite well.
The Paucisquamis is a little aggressive with the Borelli females, but not with the male.
My frustration is that so far no signs of breeding. The Borelli male seems not even interested in the females.
Could be the case that he is too old and not ready for breeding anymore? Or more likely that the females are stressed with the dynamics between the cacatuoides and the paucisquamis?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Could be the case that the male A. borellii can't hold a territory against the bit more aggressive apisto males in this community. Put the borellii pair in a tank set up for breeding and they should respond.
 

demoura

New Member
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
I would love but in my apartment there is no room for another tank.
I was thinking about taking the Cacatuoides out, or indeed into a small internal nursery, for a few days.
The problem is that I just can't get him. It is very fast and in the tank there is plenty of places for him to hide. Taking the abacaxis out was very difficulty, I had to take out all the decoration and then force it into a cave and take the cave out.
Any hints of how to capture these very fast fishes?
 

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