New fish incoming

[cichlidmac]

I just won two bids from apistodave on aquabid. Borellii opal and location 21. I am eagerly awaiting their arrival

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[Brown Water]

Nice, he has great fish.

The few pairs I have got from him have been awesome, and intresting. All fish are quite skiddish, and the only thing I can stack it up to is f1.

 

[cichlidmac]

Got them today! Thanks Dave! They are in there own 55 gallon.

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[pawel]

wow, they are nice. how much they cost you?

 

[cichlidmac]

30 bid on borellii 20 bid on location 21

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[cichlidmac]

Per pair of course.

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[Mike Wise]

Nice form or A. borellii and nice A. cinilabra.

 

[cichlidmac]

Nice form or A. borellii and nice A. cinilabra.

So it has a name! I've been searching all over for info. What lineage does it belong to?

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[Mike Wise]

Dr. Römer described A. cinilabra and claimed that it was found only in one pool. Tom C & I had collected this species at the type locality and in a nearby stream before Römer described the fish. At the time it was listed under many different names: A. sp. Schwarzbrust/Black-breast; Roter/Roterpunkt; A. sp. 2000; A. sp.; A. sp. Doña Martina; A. sp. Red Rio Tigre. The fish that Dave (and you) have originated from a stream near the Km 21 marker on the Iquitos to Nauta highway. Römer considers it different from A. cinilabra because of its location and slightly different body color. Last Fall, TomC & I both collected at KM 21 (culvert that carried the stream under the highway was filled with bats, BTW). The dark markings were the same. The 2 locations are <5 Km from each other and in the same river system (Río Itaya?). So, the diagnostic features are alike, the collecting locations are very close to each other (the pool might even be attached to the stream during high water), therefore to me they are the same species. If you want to make them unique, then call them A. cinilabra "Km 21".

 

[cichlidmac]

Thanks for the info Mike!

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[cichlidmac]

Bare bottom breeding tank setup.

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[cichlidmac]

Just got the perfect tank mates for my new apistogrammas. Wild coral red pencils

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[cichlidmac]

Nice, he has great fish.

The few pairs I have got from him have been awesome, and intresting. All fish are quite skiddish, and the only thing I can stack it up to is f1.

Mine aren't skittish at all. I've been feeding them with food in a net to get them use to me.

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[Mike Wise]

TomC just emailed me. I need to correct my statements. Tom & I collected at KM77 not KM21. The KM77 specimens IMHO are A. cinilabra, contrary to what Dr. Römer believes. Now, if your fish truly are from KM21, then they may be (probably are) different from either the holotype or KM77 populations of A. cinilabra. The 2 photos I see appear to be more like a cruzi-subcomplex form (lower dorsal, more prominent dorsal spots and abdominal stripes), but I can't be sure without seeing the veritcal bars (not visible on either photo). Tom told me that they look more like A. sp. Napo 3, a cruzi-like fish, which is also possible.

Thanks, Tom, for correcting me. I wish more people would.

 

[cichlidmac]

TomC just emailed me. I need to correct my statements. Tom & I collected at KM77 not KM21. The KM77 specimens IMHO are A. cinilabra, contrary to what Dr. Römer believes. Now, if your fish truly are from KM21, then they may be (probably are) different from either the holotype or KM77 populations of A. cinilabra. The 2 photos I see appear to be more like a cruzi-subcomplex form (lower dorsal, more prominent dorsal spots and abdominal stripes), but I can't be sure without seeing the veritcal bars (not visible on either photo). Tom told me that they look more like A. sp. Napo 3, a cruzi-like fish, which is also possible.

Thanks, Tom, for correcting me. I wish more people would.

Wish I had the knowledge to....

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[Mike Wise]

If you're not sure an opinion is correct all you have to write is, "Why do you think this?"

 

[cichlidmac]

I'll post a better pic today. So technically this is still an undescribed species?

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[cichlidmac]

I just wanted to thank you again, this is such a great resource. My fascination with apistogramma is becoming an obsession and I really appreciate being able to learn here.

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[cichlidmac]

He does have 2 very faint bluish horizontal bars under the black bar but you can't really see it in the photo.
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[Mike Wise]

If it is A. sp. Napo 3, then it's an undescribed species. If it's A. cinilarbra, then it's scientifically described. I can't say anything about which species it truly is without seeing the vertical bars on the flanks. These usually only appear on stressed/frightened fish.