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A.viejita or A.macmasteri

Mark C

New Member
Messages
8
Location
Melbourne Australia
Need help with id i was sold this pair as A.viejita but im not sure if there true viejita as the males in my books seem to have more slender bodies .My male has a more slender body than my A.macmasteri in another tank but im still not sure
IMG_0704.jpg


IMG_0679.jpg


Hope these images work and are clear enough for ID .
 

Melanochromis

Member
Messages
249
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
Most apistogramma keepers in my country would instantly call the fish in the picture "viejita".
This misunderstanding, if it is, seems to be very widespread and at the international level now.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I would say that most apisto keepers are in error. Most apisto keepers worldwide have never seen the true A. viejita alive. In the 35 years of keeping dwarfs, I've seen live specimens of A. viejita only once. Once you see it, it is obvious that it is different from A. macmasteri. I suggest that people interested in understanding the difference between the two species should read Koslowski (2002) or my description at the Cichlid Room Companion web site. The following is a Q&D (quick and dirty) aid:

If it doesn't have a bright red edge on the dorsal fin - it isn't A. viejita.
If it has caudal fin extensions - it isn't A. viejita.
If it is deep bodied (high backed) - it isn't A. viejita.
 

Mark C

New Member
Messages
8
Location
Melbourne Australia
Thx Mike for confirming what i feared .If youve only seen them once in 35 years of keeping dwarfs ,Im thinking the breeder that thinks he has viejita for me is wrong and doubt i would be able to get them here in Australia so far from native habitat ,when your so much closer to SA than me .Im not to happy about this as always wanted some viejita .After i hook the fry out of tank the two commercial viejita (macmasteri) will be going in the big tank and i will be looking for some more Apisto to breed ,hope i can find some true forms of something because i realy dont want to breed hybrids or man made strains .
 

briztoon

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
203
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Hi Mark.

Many commercially bred A. macmasteri are imported in to Australia from both Germany and Thailand under the name of of A. viejita. Most LFS would have no idea how to tell the difference between the two species and will only sell the fish under the name it came in to the country. Not all hobbiests in Australia join international forums (or even are online) and it is near impossible to explain to these hobbiests that certain species are not what they think they are.

You want to have a good "discussion" with some hobbiests, try telling them that there are no true Green terrors in Australia and that Andinoacara rivulatus (ex Aquidens rivulatus) is not actually the true Green Terror either. P.S. we only have Andinoacara sp. "Gold saum" in Australia.

In case you have not heard, the import regulations will be changing towards the end of the year (AQIS will be instituting batch testing of all aquarium fish imports) and it's unlikely many (any) apistos will be imported in to the country after this.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
It isn't a lot better in the UK, our local Maidenhead Aquatics often have both "A. viejita" and A. macmasteri for sale as pairs. The "viejita" are usually about £3-5 a pair more expensive (about £15 - 18 a pair), but all the fish are macmasteri and 95% of them are males.

cheers Darrel
 

briztoon

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
203
Location
Brisbane, Australia
haha Darrel,

Don't start mentioning prices mate. Let's put things in to perspective, most of my dwarves cichlid pairs cost 2 to 4 times more than the brand new tank they go in. Actually I can buy a brand new a 24"x12"x15" Sera brand tank, 50 watt Jager heater, a very good spunge filter, 5 kgs of quartz sand, branchy driftwood and some plants and then go spend the same money on a nice pair of apistos or pelvicachromis to go in the new setup.

Or I can buy a 4cm L046 for AUS$1500.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Personally, I think that A. macmasteri is a prettier fish than A. viejita. Both species are found within 50 Km of each other in the wild. The reason we get wild macs is because they are found on the outskirts of Villavicencio, Colombia. The city is protected by government police, so collectors are relatively safe. Go 50 Km outside of Villavicencio and you are in FARC & cocaine country. The FARC rebels are on the wain, but not necessarily the cocaine producers. You could fly into Villavicencio and drive to the type locality with ease. Nine times out of ten you would have no real problems. It's the tenth time that I'd worry about. When everything stabilizes in the area, we should be able to get A. viejita if we want it. Personally, I would prefer going just a little farther and collecting A. sp. Rotflecken/Red-flecked/"A. viejita" Colorform II!
 

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