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What fish are from the same location as apistogramma trifasiata?

apisto9809

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I love biotopes and would like to know some fish/shrimp/plants that come from the same river/s as Apistogramma Trifasiata. Thanks in advance!!!!
 

bigbird

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Morning,

A. Macilensis, A. Inconspicua, A. Commbrae, A, Borellii

They all come from upper/lower or regions of the Rio Guapore .

Hope this helps
cheers JK:cool:
 

apisto9809

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thanks, those are good to know

I meant what dither fish though.


This is what I hope to have in my tank (Eclipse 12 gallon)

2 apistogramma trifasiata
7 tetras (3 neons and 4 cardinals because I already have them)
3 otocinclus

I think the tetras might interfere with breedingf though. :(

The Apistos will have a nice, large PVC pipe cave in the middle of the tank though for spawning.
 

Mike Wise

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How accurate a biotope aquarium do you want?

First of all, there is no such animal as "A. maciliensis". There is a subspecies of A. trifasciata from the middle Rio Guaporé that was originally given the name A. t. maciliensis.

Second, there are 2 different geographic forms of A. trifasciata - one from the upper Guaporé and Paraguay system and another from the lower/middle Guaporé and lower Mamoré. For a true biotope aquarium, you need to know which A. trifasciata form that you have. A. borellii & A. commbrae are found only with A. trifasciata in the Paraguay system; A. inconspicua, A. cf. staecki (Guaporé), and A. sp. Mamoré are found in the middle/lower Guaporé/Mamoré system with the other form.

Third, Neon Tetras are found only in the Peruvian Amazon; Cardinals only from the upper Rio Negro/upper Río Orinoco. They are not exactly from the same biotope. Both are considered to be fry predators, but if you aren't interested in producing fry, they will do fine with A. trifasciata.

Species of Otocinclus are found in the Paraguay, but I am not sure of the Guaporé/Mamoré.

If you just want a tank with a community of South American fish, you have a lot of choices. If you want a true biotope, then you first need to decide which biotope that you want to imitate.
 

apisto9809

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would endler's livebearer be seen as fry predators?

Also, the apistos will have a nice cave, will that protect fry?

What fish are small schooling fish that come from the same as the Trifasciata?

I really do not care the region, otos and trifasciata always live in the same river systems, so all I need is the dither fish, would hatchetfish be good?
 

apisto9809

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How about blackwing hachetfish? marbled hatchetfish? Pygmy hatchetfish? Or maybe Endlers? Just making sure, but otos are safe, right?
 

Mike Wise

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I don't know of any pencilfish or hatchetfish that come from the regions inhabited by A. trifasciata. Nevertheless, both types of fish would be excellent companions. Otocinclus should be fine with apistos, too.
 

apisto9809

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some people state that if the apistos are good parents, they will not let other fish eat the fry or eat the fry themselves. Do you think even a small tetra like flame tetras (2 cm. max size) would try to eat fry?
 

jose_vogel

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One of the natural habitats of A. trifasciata is the river Parana basin and the river Uruguay basin.

Some of the ornamental fishes (of the Characidae family) usually found there are:
Astyanax asuncionensis
Hyphessobrycon elachys
H. eques
H. igneus
H. luetkeni
H. meridionalis
H. anisitsi
Moenkhausia intermedia
M. sanctaefilomenae
Apyocharax anitsi
A. paraguayensis
A. rathbuni


And, as Mike Wise mentioned, there´s no pencilfish nor hatchetfish in this basins. And the endler´s are very far from here (almost 5.000 miles = 7.800 km)
 

apisto9809

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In Brazil there are, here are my possible combinations for my biotope, there are different countries labeled with different fish and their stocking numbers. I think my tank footprint is too small for hatchets anyway, 20" long x 10" wide is probably too small:

Venezuela:

pair of --Apistogramma Hongsloi or Apistogrmma Elizabithae
7--Endlers
3--Otocinclus Vittatus

Brazil:

pair of--Apistogramma Trifasciata
3--Otocinclus affinis
7 of 1 species--Neon Tetras or Cardinal Tetra

Peru:

pair of--Apistogramma Eremnopyge
7 of 1 species--Neon tetra or pygmy hatchetfish or marble hatchetfish
3 of 1 species--Otocinclus cocama or Otocinclus Vittatis

Colombia:

pair of--Apistogramma Hongsloi or Apistogramma Viejita
7 of 1 species--Neon tetra or Cardinal tetra or Green Neon tetra or Marble Hatchetfish
3--Otocinclus vittatus

I heard bad things about 2 species. First is the tetras, they are egg eaters an will interfere with Apisto breeding. Secondly, Hatchetfish, pretty, but can be very risky, they require 4-6" of space between the waterline and the top of the tank, which I cannot. I can either take the risky way with tetras (the Brazil, Colombia, and Peruvian biotopes), or go the safe way with the Venezuelan setup with Endler's.

Thanks

-Nick
 

skh

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Hi Nick,

I have been at the lower rio St. Martin in Bolivia (Guapore system) and I found hatchet-fish (C. marthae) syntop with A. trifasciata as well as two species of pencilfish (N. trifasciatus, N. unifasciatus). Also two species of Aphyocharax, Serrapinnus sp., Prionobrama sp. and a lot of tiny unidentified characins.

As Mike already mentioned, there have been Apistogramma sp. Guapore, A. inconspicua a small Crenicichla species, Crenicara latruncularium, but no Otocinclus. Instead there have been two species of Hypoptopoma and Corydoras hastatus.

Plenty of species if you really want to create something like a biotope aquarium.

cheers

Stefan
 

apisto9809

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Just name any fish you would use in a south American biotope, in a format I did please. The problem is, the hatchetfish would probably not have much surface area to swim on(20" x 10"). I really like the domesticated version of the Apistogramma Eremnopyge. What would you recommend as stocking for a biotope. It can be any river/country, as long as there is an apisto in it. I love apistos!!!!
 

Mike Wise

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For someone with little or no experience with dwarf cichlids, I would not recommend any of the apisto species that you list be kept in a 10 gallon tank. You more likely would be successful with A. borellii, A. caetei- or A. resticulosa-complex species. These are smaller & less aggressive species.

I love Flame/Von Rio Tetras. They were the first fish I successfully reproduced. I also know that they will eat apisto fry. I had a female A. cacatuoides who was continually driving a couple of Flames away from her breeding cave. She eventually killed both because they wouldn't stay away. I expect this is what would happen with many other tetras in small tanks.

Since you are not looking to produce a true natural biotope (based on the species that you list), I suggest that you get a pair of Opal A. borellii, and add 3-4 Dwarf Pencilfish (Nannostomus marginatus) and a 1-2 Otocinclus. This is a full compliment for a 10 gallon tank.
 

apisto9809

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I'm just wondering, but why do advise against Trifasciata? Are they hard to take care of? Are there any red color variations of Borelli? I do not like the yellow coloration. What other beginner fish would do well in my Eclipse 12 with other fish from the same river as the the fish you recommend?
 

Mike Wise

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I would never put a pair of A. trifasciata in a 10. For such a small species, males are extremely aggressive if the female is not ready to breed. I find that I am more successful keeping aggression at bay if I have only 1 male with 2 or more females in a 30 long.

A. caetei & A. resticulosa are Brazilian fish. They are much more rare in the hobby for some reason. They do appear on fish lists every once in a while. Also check what is available on Aquabid.

A. borellii is a polychromatic species. The Opal strain has a lot of red on the face with blue body and blue/yellow fins. It is also an excellent beginners fish.
 

apisto9809

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I really fell in love with the viejitas coloration, they are not a beginner species I presume and cannot be kept in an Eclipse 12 gallon? I might soon upgrade to a 25 to 30 gallon tank.
 

Mike Wise

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The "viejita" that you see most often are actually A. macmasteri or a cross. That being said, macmasteri-group species grow well over 3"/7.5 cm and males can be very territorial. There is a German report where a male claimed control of an entire 2m/7' long tank! This is not typical, thankfully. Still when the female has fry, a 10 gallon tank will not be large enough for her and the male - and then the male loses if not removed.

All of the fish you have listed can be bred in a 10 - if you have experience and are carefully watching for problems. You can try any that you want. You might even be successful, but don't be surprised/disappointed if you end up with only 1 fish and no fry. I am only giving you my 35 years of experience keeping and breeding apistos.
 

apisto9809

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thanks man, I might be able to get my parents to buy me another tank, I have to change most aspects of my Eclipse 12 anyway, filtration and lighting.
 

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