Mendezi vs Mendezi 2007

[blueblue]

Mendezi (Santa Isabel, orange belly, horizontal lines)
vs
Mendezi (Sao Gabriel, yellow belly, vertical lines)

 

[Refael Hdr.]

Wow, they are absolutely stunning...

 

[Greg PL]

the tail-fin pattern is so different. is it what Roemer described in CA1 about mendezi and gibbiceps?

 

[peterK]

Hello blueblue
Mendezi is one of my favourite!
But, I think one of them is A. paucisquamis, or I'm wrong?
Or this one with vertical stripes is tank-bred form?
Piotr>>>

 

[Microman]

I am aware that populations of both forms of mendezi with horizontal and vertical tail stripes are found in the wild.
Mark.

 

[blueblue]

Wow, they are absolutely stunning...

Thanks Rfefael

 

[blueblue]

the tail-fin pattern is so different. is it what Roemer described in CA1 about mendezi and gibbiceps?

Hi Greg, yes, the caudal fin's patterns are very different in these two kinds of mendezi. Plus, there is one kind of mendezi with the caudal fin pattern somewhere between these two. Moreover, there is the A. sp. "Fork-band" which I would say that it is another kind of mendezi with a more visible cheek-band and two converged lateral bands in some specimens. I do have
a pair of this "Fork-band" and i will show you all later

 

[blueblue]

Hello blueblue
Mendezi is one of my favourite!
But, I think one of them is A. paucisquamis, or I'm wrong?
Or this one with vertical stripes is tank-bred form?
Piotr>>>

Thanks Piotr. They are all 100% mendezi and paucisquamis will never have the kinds of caudal fin pattern as shown by the two male fish in the pics.

 

[blueblue]

I am aware that populations of both forms of mendezi with horizontal and vertical tail stripes are found in the wild.
Mark.

Right. The photos show the two types.
Uwe mentioned in his Atlas I that the geographical distribution of mendezi is correlated to the caudal fin pattern... however, many hobbyists have very serious doubts... Mendezi is one of my focused apisto species and i have basically collected and bred all forms available in the market over the past few years... on one hand, these two kinds of mendezi can cross without much difficulty; on the other hand, wild caught of a pair of this specimen will give F1 which show the features of the other kind, and there are many wildcaught, especially from Sao Gabriel, which shows the features between these two kinds. So, it seems to me that the geographical claim may not be that valid...

 

[Microman]

So Uwe and Koslowski may be wrong in the fact that there are not different geographical populations/variants but one species showing both caudal fin patterns.

 

[blueblue]

So Uwe and Koslowski may be wrong in the fact that there are not different geographical populations/variants but one species showing both caudal fin patterns.

This is quite likely... especially when they are NOT geographically separated (fish can swim and migrate) and they can easily cross in the nature (intermediate forms are also present)

 

[Microman]

This is quite likely... especially when they are NOT geographically separated (fish can swim and migrate) and they can easily cross in the nature (intermediate forms are also present)

Very interesting Blue....

 

[Mike Wise]

Obviously we need more collecting & studying of this phenominon in the wild. I'm ready to volunteer if someone else can find the money, logistics, & permits!:tongue:

 

[blueblue]

Obviously we need more collecting & studying of this phenominon in the wild. I'm ready to volunteer if someone else can find the money, logistics, & permits!:tongue:

By the way, Mike, i heard that many areas in Brasil are now prohibited for fishing... some people told me that these areas include the locality of eliza such as Tucano. Is it true??

 

[Mike Wise]

Only commercial collectors from Brazil and scientific expeditions - with the hard-to-get permits - are allowed to collect in Brazil right now. Dr. Chao is trying to encourage the government to allow eco-tourism/fish collecting right now. I hope it happens.

I understand that the Rio Uaupés is a source for Cardinal/Red Neon Tetras. There are only a few months during which collecting is allowed. Perhaps this is what you heard.

 

[Greg PL]

This is quite likely... especially when they are NOT geographically separated (fish can swim and migrate) and they can easily cross in the nature (intermediate forms are also present)

I'm not so sure about the ease of migration for apistos. since they stick to areas offering shelter (vegetation, leaf litter, ficus roots...) then crossing a few meters of plain sand can be pretty dangerous. sandy bottom, strong current in the middle, cut patches of forrest on the banks and you can have a lot of fairly separated populations. collection along the bank on the distance of 50m could bring fish from different colonies.
I'm making this up as I go, since I haven't been there, but it's an interesting thought to develop

did anyone have contact with the http://www.mikofish.com? they mention collecting trips in Venezuela.

 

[blueblue]

Only commercial collectors from Brazil and scientific expeditions - with the hard-to-get permits - are allowed to collect in Brazil right now. Dr. Chao is trying to encourage the government to allow eco-tourism/fish collecting right now. I hope it happens.

I understand that the Rio Uaupés is a source for Cardinal/Red Neon Tetras. There are only a few months during which collecting is allowed. Perhaps this is what you heard.

Thanks Mike. What i know is that: It's getting more and more difficult and expensive to acquire wildcaught eliza... i am a bit unhappy for it...

 

[blueblue]

Well, migration of apistos have been described in Uwe's CAI for eliza...
As Amazon River is always having raining season and dry season, flooding appears basically every year and it also provides a big natural force which pushes the apistos to move from one place to another... It's also why many apistos are actually not that locality-specific...

I'm not so sure about the ease of migration for apistos. since they stick to areas offering shelter (vegetation, leaf litter, ficus roots...) then crossing a few meters of plain sand can be pretty dangerous. sandy bottom, strong current in the middle, cut patches of forrest on the banks and you can have a lot of fairly separated populations. collection along the bank on the distance of 50m could bring fish from different colonies.
I'm making this up as I go, since I haven't been there, but it's an interesting thought to develop

did anyone have contact with the http://www.mikofish.com? they mention collecting trips in Venezuela.

 

[Mike Wise]

Other ways of migration that might not be done willingly: being flushed downstream during heavy storms in patches of floating meadow or driftwood.

 

[Greg PL]

Other ways of migration that might not be done willingly: being flushed downstream during heavy storms in patches of floating meadow or driftwood.

still, it can lead to establishing a separated population in some remote location. the genetic material may be sparse if only a few, related specimens are "moved", which increases chances of mutation.
at least until the next rainy season.