• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Succes with breeding Cacs

David

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
15
Location
the Netherlands
After a couple of failed attempts it looks like this time I am going to have a succesful breeding attempt. The other attempts failed because they were in a community tank, where all the fry were eaten, or in a "fresh tank", which hasn't ripened to create the one-celled creatures that are food for the fry.

So, learning from these lessons, I had a tank ready for the Cacs, with some small ancistrusses in there, and some redtail shrimps. I put my Cac couple in there and waited. After a week or so I noticed that the female was hiding, and a couple of days later i saw her again with the fry. Unfortunately she died after another week, but there was still a lot of fry left. I removed the male, because i thought he might feed on the fry without the female there to chase him away. Since a week or so the fry are eating dry food (decapsulated artemia) and they've started growing quite fast. I was actually suprised to see that the 1cm fry are already starting to display "adult" behaviour. FGor instance, 2 of the will be swimming side to side, and start flashing teir tail, as the adult do in courtship.

Anyway, I have about 12 of them left, without going through any difficulties. I just made sure that the tank was heavily planted with elodea densa, which creates lots of surface where one-celled creatures can grow, and that the tank was matured so that these one-celled creatures also had enough time to multiply. That provided plenty of food for the fry to survive the first weeks. Now they eat dry food, so i never had to feed them BBS or other self-prepared live food.

They are growing very hard now, every day they look bigger. The biggest ones are now about 1.5 cm, the smallest about 1 cm. I am trying to see if i can determine sexes, but i cannot tell yet. I've read somewhere that the easiest way to sex them is by looking at the fins they have behind their gills (dorsal fins?). The females have them black, the males don't. But none of the have black fins at the moment. I do start to see some color in the back fin, which i consider to be a male trait. I also wonder what kind of colors they will have. I know that the male is a double red, but i don't know for sure if the female is too, since they all look the same.
 

David

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
15
Location
the Netherlands
AquaAlbatros said:
Be careful with the shrimps. they love to capture some fry from time to time.

not these, they lack the equipment to do that. these shrimps have no scissors, so it's impossible for them to catch a young fish.

I still find it amazing how fast these little fish grow.

How do i recognize males and females? I am starting to see a bit of pattern at the base of the dorsal fin of some of them. i am guessing these are males. is that correct?
 

Griz

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
113
Location
Canada
A couple things to look for. The first few rays of the dorsal fin will be slightly elongated - these will be males. This takes a while to develop though. Also, look for a dark leading edge on the ventral fins - these will be females.

It's surprising how early these fish can be sexed, but there are always exceptions and some can fool you.
 

David

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
15
Location
the Netherlands
Griz said:
A couple things to look for. The first few rays of the dorsal fin will be slightly elongated - these will be males. This takes a while to develop though. Also, look for a dark leading edge on the ventral fins - these will be females.

It's surprising how early these fish can be sexed, but there are always exceptions and some can fool you.

thanks, i'll take a closer look at them tonight.

Another question, is it normal that they differ in size a lot? the biggest of the fry are roughly 3 times the size of the smallest. As far as I can tell, they are all eating normally. The bigger ones are a bit more aggressive in chasing away other fishes from their food. I am curious if they are more aggressive because they are bigger, or if they are bigger because they are more agressive.
 

fishgeek

New Member
Messages
980
Location
london uk
i find that the more fish in a smaller setup the harder to distinguish males, often if you remove the obvious males more will show themselves

andrew
 

Konigwolf

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
120
Griz said:
A couple things to look for. The first few rays of the dorsal fin will be slightly elongated - these will be males. This takes a while to develop though. Also, look for a dark leading edge on the ventral fins - these will be females.

It's surprising how early these fish can be sexed, but there are always exceptions and some can fool you.

And thats true. I have a wonderfull young male just starting to fully colour up (I got him week ago just a bit of colour on his fins) about 1" SL, he's going to be a very nice triple (quad?) red with dorsal, caudal, anal and pelvic fins coloured and black leading edge on dorsal and pelvic fins and yet to develop the elongated dorsal fin.

Andrew
 

David

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
15
Location
the Netherlands
The cacs have grown up very well, and i've moved them to the community tank. I've been a bit unlucky with the male to female ratio: 1 male and 12 females. The parents are back in the breeding tank and will probably spawn again soon, since thay do that about twice a month. Is there any way for me to steer the male to female ratio?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,201
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Römer's breeding studies have shown that sex in apistos is temperature dependent. At higher temperatures (above 26ºC/79ºF) the ratio is skewed toward more males (except in A. caetei for some reason). At lower temperatures (below 26ºC/79ºF) the ratio is skewed toward more females. You apparently have had your aquarium at a lower temperatue. So, once the pair have spawned & the fry are freeswimming, set the temperature of the tank to 26ºC/79ºF for the next 2 - 3 months. This should provide a more even sex ratio.
 

David

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
15
Location
the Netherlands
Mike Wise said:
Römer's breeding studies have shown that sex in apistos is temperature dependent. At higher temperatures (above 26ºC/79ºF) the ratio is skewed toward more males (except in A. caetei for some reason). At lower temperatures (below 26ºC/79ºF) the ratio is skewed toward more females. You apparently have had your aquarium at a lower temperatue. So, once the pair have spawned & the fry are freeswimming, set the temperature of the tank to 26ºC/79ºF for the next 2 - 3 months. This should provide a more even sex ratio.

So the sex isn't determined yet directly after hatching? That's quite cool. I have indeed a lower temperature in my tanks, 24-25°C, so that must be it. Thanks for the info. Should I wait with raising the temp until after hatching? I don't see the harm in doing it already, unless it is bad for the adults?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,201
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
According to Römer's research, apisto sex determination is not set at fertilization or hatching, but over the next 4 - 8 weeks. You can keep the temperature at a constant 26ºC. The fish handle this temperature, although they may age somewhat faster, too.
 

Christine-FishGrrl

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
58
Location
San Jose, CA
Is it possible that there is one dominant male and other subdominant males are pretending to be female so they don't get harassed? I once had what I thought was a pair of cacs and when the male died, the "female" turned out to be a male.
 

LyreTail

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
87
Is the temperature thing for all species of apistogramma or is is species dependent - some effected more or less by pH and some more or less effected by temperature? The charts in Mergus Cichlid altas led me to believe it was species dependent and different factors effect different species????
 

David

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
15
Location
the Netherlands
Christine-FishGrrl said:
Is it possible that there is one dominant male and other subdominant males are pretending to be female so they don't get harassed? I once had what I thought was a pair of cacs and when the male died, the "female" turned out to be a male.

i doubt it, because i have had cacs for quite some time and there are numerous details by which you can tell the sex. however, i may be wrong, i have never seen such a "sex change", so i might be overlooking things.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,915
Messages
116,199
Members
13,027
Latest member
tonc61

Latest profile posts

Josh wrote on anewbie's profile.
Testing
EDO
Longtime fish enthusiast for over 70years......keen on Apistos now. How do I post videos?
Looking for some help with fighting electric blue rams :(
Partial updated Peruvian list have more than this. Please PM FOR ANY QUESTIONS so hard to post with all the ads poping up every 2 seconds….
Top