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ID and sexing

Makjac

New Member
Messages
4
I just got my first “pair” of apistos. They were sold as an “Ortegai Pebas Pair.” Calling them a pair is probably generous since at least one of them is still very juvenile. However they’re going in a community tank so I’m not concerned about breeding at the moment.

I would like to get an idea of if they are actually Ortegai Pebas and whether they are male and female though.

The first 2 images are of the same fish (the color change over different substrates is really amazing), about 1.5 inches. The third image is of the juvenile (probably too young to really tell) about .75 inches.

Also, since this is a community tank (60 gallons) that I’m not planning on breeding in, am I okay to get another pair of a different complex? I was leaning towards Agassizii double reds.

A6C61CE5-0005-4901-832B-CA749741ED8A.jpeg
47301D74-9177-4DD2-A6DF-ECDBD87CD8EB.jpeg
AEA06041-1F59-41A3-A7ED-AE5AC02CEF74.jpeg
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
The fish is an A. ortegai for sure and also a male. But if it's a real pebas... I'm not so sure, he is missing some of the red. You can see mine in my avatar picture fpr reference.
The other one is very likely a female, but don't make me swear on it.

Mine killed his female, so make sure she has hiding spots. Also they like relatively open terrain.

After the female was gone I restructured more to copy the biotope, as I didn't have to provide more hiding spots. I noticed the male preferred to be in the leaf litter parts after the redo, so maybe add leaf litter.
 

Makjac

New Member
Messages
4
Thanks!

He gets a bit of red on the fins at times, but I haven’t really seen it on the body like in your avatar. Is it possible that’s a color that comes in at a more mature age?

They have plenty of open space and hiding spots I believe (there’s an immeasurable amount of caves within the rocks). They’ve only been in the tank for a few days after QT, and seem comfortable out in the open and among the rocks already from what I can tell.

Pic for tank reference. Obviously more of a scape than a biotope, but I believe it meets most of their wants other than leaf litter.

98A8B5C0-8C46-4542-91EE-973F614F38EF.jpeg
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Thanks!

He gets a bit of red on the fins at times, but I haven’t really seen it on the body like in your avatar. Is it possible that’s a color that comes in at a more mature age?

They have plenty of open space and hiding spots I believe (there’s an immeasurable amount of caves within the rocks). They’ve only been in the tank for a few days after QT, and seem comfortable out in the open and among the rocks already from what I can tell.

Pic for tank reference. Obviously more of a scape than a biotope, but I believe it meets most of their wants other than leaf litter.

View attachment 10277

A shame I can't get a bigger view of the tank, while it looks impressive it's not really suitable for Apistogramma. Open spaces are fine, but open on all sides is not the best idea. Many angles from which a fish can see to the other end of the tank and that is what needs to be prevented if you don't want the male to hunt down the female.
Frankly, I find scaped tanks and Apistogramma usually don't go well together.

For your reference, my tank when it was still designed to hold a pair:
20210120_182212.jpg
As one can see especially in the lower third the tanks was cut in half by rocks and driftwood. At the point I took the picture I already switched to A. hongsloi, I couldn't find the pictures from the A. ortegai-times. You can still see the ratio of open to covered areas.

And today, designed for biotope style keeping of single specimens:

IMG_4215.JPG

Question: Do ortegai require black water to breed ?
Type locality has 6.0 pH and very low conductivity, so it's going in that direction.
 
Last edited:

Makjac

New Member
Messages
4
The island is a little under 30 inches wide and 17 inches deep (so only 3 inches or so of open space between the glass and rocks). The center portion is pretty dense Java fern with large rocks below creating caves and sight line breaks (maybe an inch of sand underneath so around 5inches or so of the height is just those large rocks, stacked a little looser than the visible ones).

I’ve seen a little chasing but it only takes a second or so for the smaller fish to completely loose the larger fish even if caught in the most open corner.

Here’s a higher res image. There’s a full grown oto in the back left corner for scale.
BA34DEA2-090C-48C1-B211-7629DCB6FB86.jpeg
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,366
I think for a single pair that island will probably work fine. I know from watching my apisto and nannacara that they will simply circle the island and then dart into a cave to escape - at least that is my speculation. I don't have an island design but i have watch the females double track between the plants when they want to escape the male.
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From reading many of @MacZ posts he seems to end up with either very aggressive apisto or has bad luck because some of the aggression story he has told (even when species overlap like hongsloi) i have not experienced. I wonder if part of the issue is that his tank is fairly small as i have gone with larger tanks - using 29 and 40B. While there has been some aggression in my 29 (4 hongsloi and one nijjensi) there has been virtually no observed violence with the fishes easily able to leave the territory before conflict arises. I'm not sure of @MacZ tank size but i suspect it is a 10 or 15 and perhaps the smaller floor space is causing some of the increased issue. My 29 is not particularly dense but does have some specific spots of escape which the fishes have learned to utlizes. The largest conflict is between the two males but as i noted there has been little violence with the one male signal aggression and the second leaving before violence (background i started with 4 fishes of size 1/4 inch - well before sex could be determined) and now they are adults with an end result of 2 m and 2 f.
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Your tank seems like a bit over 35 gallons which is quite large for a single pair and might even be able to support a second pair though given the landscape could be a little risky.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
@anewbie: It's a 80l/20gal but high, so a 60x30cm footprint. I know this is on the smaller side, true. Though, the fact others from my area had no problems with other Apistogramma species in that tank size makes me think I had at least some overly aggressive specimens.

My solution was simply stopping to keep pairs. I'm not interested in breeding anyway.
 

Makjac

New Member
Messages
4
It’s actually a 60 gallon (90, 50, 50 cm). So I think I’ll go with 2 pairs. Worst case I have an empty 20 I can set up if it gets to be too much of a battleground (or if I end up wanting to breed them).

From what I’ve read it sounds like getting differing body shapes can help reduce aggression. Do you find this holds true?
 

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