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sexing, please

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Sorry for joining your discussion, but I have the same issue. I bought today 2 Agassizii Super Red Apistos. One is a definite male, but the second one ... I am confused. It is less coloured and sized, but it can be just young. Please help me as well :)
 

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vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Thanks you both for your replies.

I swapped the questionable female with a new one. Male is the same. Here is a video of them:


Could you please tell me if the smaller one is the female?
It is smaller, less coloured, has rounded tale. I put them in my quarantine tank. The male has no interest in the presumed female and just swims around. She is also not interested in him and looking for food at the bottom. She is not yellowish as well ... probably she is quite young though. At the same time they are not fighting or chasing each other. In the meantime, the LPS can't tell me if they are from the same brood, so I could easily identify males/females re their size.

What also confuses me is the blue spots on her gills. I read that females should not have them, but if they were bred in-house, i.e. not wild, females may start to have similar colours and blue spots on their gills as well as males.
 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Here is one more video from the tank where they are at the moment. So confusing .... I do not even know what to think about this “female”?! It can be a sneaker male ... I just do not know. Please guys... help me

 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Just have noticed that the male chases the presumed female. Hmm... really do not know what to think :( It can be due to the small one is the male too or if the small one is the female, she is just not ready for breeding and that is why the male chases her.
Also, if you can see, it is visible on video, the presumed female has a bit yellow at the belly. May be it the female?! I am completely confused :)

More video:




 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
He is chasing the small one really hard :( The small one is quite black and under stress.
You need to take it out of the tank as soon as possible.

Also there isn't anything like enough cover in the tank for the fish to hide, should it turn out to be a female you won't be able to re-introduce her.

How big is the tank? They really need at least a 60cm x 30cm floor area, even for a male and a female.

Last one, the substrate is much too coarse as well.

It doesn't actually really matter at the moment whether the smaller fish is a male or a non-receptive female, A. agassizii is a harem breeder and the male will drive all other males and un-receptive females out of its territory, ans wait until another receptive female comes along. He doesn't know that another receptive female isn't going to swim into his territory.

His territory is the whole tank.

cheers Darrel
 

Ade205

Active Member
Messages
172
Location
Swadlincote, England
Totally agree with Darrel who summed it up perfectly. My Agassizii fire reds have started spawning so clearly the male approves of his female, yet up untill eggs being laid, and straight after the female ate her eggs, the male starts chasing her again and she has to dive for cover. I've never had a male Agassizii that didn't do this. Without heavy cover in form of wood, plants, leaf litter, the females would be servery stressed. With Apistos, a spare tank, or at very least a removable in tank divider should be on standby.
I also agree on substrate, sand is really best. Also, as Darrel asked, how big is this tank?

Ade.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
This is the last pair I had, I got some more fry from these, but they were all male. This was a male I kept frpm an earlier spawn. The original fish were a (Czech origin I think) purchased pair.

All the males looked similar, so I assume it was a line bred strain.

Apologies for the quality of the video


This is one of the males, this one was a bit tubby, too many Black-worms in his diet.

img_0042_2_zps6ojs6zbu-jpg.7852

cheers Darrel
 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Thanks for your answers. The tank is 60l but it is quarantine tank, it is temporary one. I will put them after week or two into my 350l. There are 3 Cacatoo Apistos there already ( 1 male and 2 females), but I hope it will be enough room for all of them in that tank.

The question is still open... do think my small fish is the non-receptive female or young male?

Thanks
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Any thoughts on what caused 100% male ratio Darrel? My last batch was same at 25.5c, ph6, tds under 100ppm.

Ade.
I don't know, it would have been similar parameters to yours. It is meant to be temperature dependent, and 26 - 27oC is supposed to give 50:50 male : female. I only ended up with 4 or 5 fry, so it may have been survival of the biggest.

As well as the Corydoras hastatus there were 3 "by catch" Copella/Pyrrhulina and the C. nigrofasciata type fish (that makes a quick appearance in the video) turned into a failry aggressive dominant fish, and may have picked the rest off.

I ended up with a lot of male A trifasciata years ago, and they were very difficult to house due to male:male aggression. I also ended up with about 30 female A. cacatuoides from one spawn.
The question is still open... do think my small fish is the non-receptive female or young male?
I'm really not qualified to judge, hopefully some-one else might have a better idea based on the videos.

cheers Darrel
 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
I understand that you want a definite male or female answer, but I can't give it. Sorry.

Thank you Mike. :)
I decided to leave the small one and put them separately. We will see what sex it ends up in 1-2 months or probably earlier.
 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Guys, this is not the end of the story :)

I came back to my LPS week ago and bought one more small Agassizii from the same batch of fish, similar size and colours to the first one. I just wanted to increase my chances to have a female.
I added the new one to the current two ones which I bought first. I wanted to spread aggression of male. Two days they lived quite peacefully apart of male time to time chased those two presumed females. Then, one female, the first one, started chased the second female and she was really aggressively kicking her.... even more aggressively than male.
I decided split my quarantine tank by transparent plastic board and put the second female serarate to other two. They saw each other through the plastic board and showed their aggression.
Interestingly, the male showed aggression to the female behind the board as well as he chased the female which was in his part of the tank. But that female looked OK. I did not have a space to remove her from him. I also should say that two small fish, presumable females, started coloured and their bellies became more yellow.
What happened today, I came from work and found my male was chased by the female which was in the same part of tank with him!!!! He looked tired and stressed!!! His tale and fins were pretty smashed!!!
He hid from her in the cave, but she time to time kicked him out of there and chased through the whole tank.
WOW!!! I was shocked to see that as I saw opposite yesterday when he chased her!!!
I removed him away and put into pot. I will buy a small tank tomorrow and put him in there.

Could anyone explaine me what is going on with my Agassizii?

Thanking you in advance.
 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Guys, this is not the end of the story :)

I came back to my LPS week ago and bought one more small Agassizii from the same batch of fish, similar size and colours to the first one. I just wanted to increase my chances to have a female.
I added the new one to the current two ones which I bought first. I wanted to spread aggression of male. Two days they lived quite peacefully apart of male time to time chased those two presumed females. Then, one female, the first one, started chased the second female and she was really aggressively kicking her.... even more aggressively than male.
I decided split my quarantine tank by transparent plastic board and put the second female serarate to other two. They saw each other through the plastic board and showed their aggression.
Interestingly, the male showed aggression to the female behind the board as well as he chased the female which was in his part of the tank. But that female looked OK. I did not have a space to remove her from him. I also should say that two small fish, presumable females, started coloured and their bellies became more yellow.
What happened today, I came from work and found my male was chased by the female which was in the same part of tank with him!!!! He looked tired and stressed!!! His tale and fins were pretty smashed!!!
He hid from her in the cave, but she time to time kicked him out of there and chased through the whole tank.
WOW!!! I was shocked to see that as I saw opposite yesterday when he chased her!!!
I removed him away and put into small breadin

Could anyone explaine me what is going on with my Agassizii?

Thanking you in advance.
 

vpik001

Member
Messages
31
Hehe )) I have found the answer :)
Once I removed the male, I could not find the female, which was smashing the male... I looked for her and found her behind the plants in front of a stone staying there and not swimming around. I closely looked at her and found the surface of stone is full of eggs! :)
WOW!!! We thought that it could be a sneaker male ))) She is definitely female!
Only what I am wondering if the male had fertilised eggs or not?! Yesterday I saw her flirting to him but he bit her. Interesting ... if today or last night when she laid the eggs he ferlilised them or not?!
 

Drayden Farci

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
207
Good to know my suspicions were right (for my own selfish reasons). Congrats on the spawn. I'm guessing he likely fertilized them. What color are they?
 

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