Elizabethae?

[Ade205]

Hi all.

Fish shops that sell apistos are super rare in my area! If you do find one it's nearly always just Cacs they have.
A few weeks ago i was told by owner of one of my local stores that they had Elizabethae on order, I was pretty excited!
They have arrived and I popped to take a look today and they are awesome! A little smaller than the owner had been promised but no issue to me!
Would just like some opinion to make sure they are what they've bn told they are as I've never seen Elizabethae in the flesh before, they are approx 1'' in size...

I know video isnt great, but any signs of gender? I tried for ages to get video or pic of fins flared but no luck! They looked healthy and the owner fed them while I was there and they were eating very well.

Cheers, Ade.

 

[MickeM]

Hi..

To me it sure looks like A. elizabethae.
..and I will take a wild guess that the one to the left after 12 seconds, if you freeze the film, is a male.., since the caudal-fin shows the typical split+ slightly elongated fintips. (As it starts to descend..). It also shows rather long pelvic-fins when descending..
The one to the right after 13 seconds looks like a female.. it indicates more black in the pelvicfins and has that yellow color (although males of A. elizabethae can be very yellow/orange). The caudal-fin looks rounded and the dorsal-fin seems to be quite abruptly rounded too..(Female!!!!????)

Please return with an answer when /if you`ll ever get the correct gender sorted out on these two..

 

[Ade205]

Thanks for reply mate. The shop owner did order a pair and said their supplier was usually very good at getting it right... time will tell!!

I have reserved the fish so they are mine
I'm currently in process of moving fish around to give these two a home all to themselves! Will update when I have fish settled in.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Ade.

 

[Ade205]

Hi again... just had a look through pictures I tried to take and thought these two mite help... a little clearer than what I thought

Cheers, Ade.

 

[Mike Wise]

Personally, I wouldn't make a guess based on the video or photos. They're just not good enough for me. One inch fish are also a bit small to sex 100%.

 

[Ade205]

Thanks Mike, I know what your saying. I was more concerned with species ID as I've not seen them in the flesh before. They are hard to find in my area and I refuse to mail order!
Thanks all for replies, much appreciated. I will update in due course!

Ade.

 

[Ade205]

Just to update... I did aquire these fish and they are both doing great. Absolutely loving their character and very out going personalities. As with all my fish I've spent a lot of time observing and noted some interesting behaviour such as the less dominant fish literally standing on its head vertically, and almost floating upwards when the dominant fish approaches... I've not seen this with any of my other Apistos.
As to sex of the fish, still no idea. The sub hardly never flares though I did think possibly has slightly longer 4th ray in dorsal. The other fish has very even dorsal ray lengths. What concerns me though is both fish appear to have the 3 or 4 rows of spots in their caudal which I believe is a female trait or does this appear in juveniles? Hard to say but possibly this only occurs in the lower half of the caudal on the fish with longer dorsal rays. I'm trying to get some good quality pics but proving difficult. Both fish still have rounded caudal with no sign of either lyrate or lanceolate shape. According to Römer's atlas there should be Asymmetrical caudal development in juveniles males at 4 months? If true then Iooks like i have two females! Time will tell.... getting a male if required will be interesting, not exactly common in these parts!

Ade.

 

[Ade205]

Ok, slightly unexpected update!
As of 4 days ago both fish were doing great, out and about and feeding well, then 3 days ago one didn't show for feeding. As I'm convinced I've two females was thinking the fish was sick or had died. I searched high and low and could not see the fish anywhere. Then yesterday I spotted both fish together which in itself is unusual as the dominant one, the one that's disappeared, doesn't tolerate the other very well. I assumed from this the fish was sick. Also, was not seen at feeding time again. However, I'm more confused today as I've spotted the fish hiding between a very small gap between the bottom of a piece of wood and the substrate. Can only see the first half of the fish but looks to be breathing normally, and interestingly is the fish has a very pronounced suborbital stripe which neither fish has shown before and also very clear twin lateral spots. I'm trying not to get ahead of myself but the fish does look like it's in brooding dress! Do apistos ever spawn without a male? A kinda ghost spawning? I've had two females Rams spawn and care as m+f before, but never apistos. Suppose other fish could be male but certainly has zero male finage as yet, so are they old enough to spawn before their male traits come through? Maybe fish is just sick.... All very confusing but interesting.
Any thoughts would be interesting and appreciated.... obviously I'll update any developments!

Ade.

 

[Mike Wise]

Female will lay eggs without a male present. I've had it happen many times when a female was the only fish in the tank. Could you have a pair? Very possible. Young males can be sexually mature before we notice masculine features. I think that you just need to be more patient and wait to see how things (and the fish) develop.

 

[Ade205]

Quick update... nothing came from previous disappearance but now have confirmed male in tank.... today I'm 99% sure have eggs. Same fish is showing breeding tube, has lost her plump belly over night and is full time under a leaf that she only emerges from if anyone gets to close... You can just see egg tube in this short clip and leaf she's chosen.

Hoping for fry! They've caught me out somewhat as intended to remove corys. If i do get fry and they cause issues they will be removed before next spawn.

Ade.

 

[Im a Doughball]

Excellent, congratulations. Water values are good enough to hatch eggs?

 

[Ade205]

Excellent, congratulations. Water values are good enough to hatch eggs?

Thanks and good question! My tap water is liquid rock and is always going to be my biggest obstacle... why on earth I didn't just get into African cichlids I'll never know lol!
After R/O my water is at 6.5pH, gh 4, kh3. Water in tank is currently 6pH, gh2 kh2. I've got my doubts on hatching this batch but will see! Anyone got any advice on just how soft is optimal?

Ade.

 

[Mike Wise]

In the wild the species occurs in waters with values < pH 6 and no visible hardness. These values are not absolutely necessary. Low bacterial growth (common at low pH values) appears to be important in successful rearing of fry.

 

[Im a Doughball]

Thanks and good question! My tap water is liquid rock and is always going to be my biggest obstacle... why on earth I didn't just get into African cichlids I'll never know lol!
After R/O my water is at 6.5pH, gh 4, kh3. Water in tank is currently 6pH, gh2 kh2. I've got my doubts on hatching this batch but will see! Anyone got any advice on just how soft is optimal?

Ade.

My best spawns came in water that was 5.0-5.4, 20tds, gh less than 1, kh 0, although I had my water get away from me a few times, and still had fry from the 5.5-5.8 50tds, 2gh, 0kH