• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

A. ortegai or cf ortegai 'Pebas' female?

Lutefisk

New Member
Messages
12
Hi all,

I bought a couple of fish from a tank of what looked (to me) to be all male A. ortegai. I gambled on the pale runt-y one hiding behind the filter, and lucked out--she's female! All the fish in that tank should have been descendants of the ones in this other thread, and therefore ortegai. The description paper makes a big deal of the "drop shaped" caudal blotch as a way to distinguish 'Pebas', and hers looks a bit like a double blotch, but also distinctly wedge-shaped. Here are some pics:
AoFemaleRtFlank.jpg AoFemaleLtFlank.jpg AoMale.jpg

Can anyone confirm whether these fish are both ortegai sensu stricto, or whether my female is cf. ortegai?

Thanks!
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Well, the male appears to correspond to A. ortegai. The females, however are problematic. A. ortega females in brood dress show a double caudal patch with a definite 'pinch' (indent) between the spots and only 2 lateral spots (on Bars 3 & 4). Sometimes there is a 'smudge' of color on Bar 6, too. Your female in brood dress shows a pattern more typical of A. cf. ortegai (Pebas), which shows a row of lateral spots and a more 'tear drop' caudal patch. Since these are domestic bred fish, there is a chance that they are a mix of the two. Do you know if all the males looked like your male? The possibility of a mix is high even in wildcaught fish. Both species, plus A. sp. Putumayo (Rio Ampiyacu) (A 86) were sold as A. sp. Galaxis (among other names) when originally imported. These closely related species often interbred in the hobby when first introduced. The type specimens of A. ortegai contained both the Papagei species (holotype of A. ortegai) and the Pebas species (paratype for ortegai). They were collected together at a location close to the town of Pebas at the mouth of the Rio Ampiyacu on the Amazon. Prior to this description Papagei had only been found without Pebas in the in the middle Ampiyacu, far from Pebas. In 2013 Dr. Römer told me of his problems traveling to the middle Ampiyacu from the police due to the cocaine drug growing and processing in the area. My guess is that collectors brought A. ortegai from the middle Ampiyacu and 'seeded' pools and streams near Pebas. This allowed safer and easier access to this popular species. They eventually mix in places - like the type locality of A. ortegai. In 2015 TomC and I traveled to the Rio Sumon in the upper Rio Ampiyacu. We were told it could be dangerous due to cocaine operations in this area, but we had a local collector who would intercede for us if we met any growers. We did not see any operations at that time, fortunately.
 

Lutefisk

New Member
Messages
12
Thanks, Mike!

The males in the store tank all looked like Papagey to me, and I was told they were all from the same breeder. However, in the weeks before I picked up my fish, I had seen some 'Pebas' for sale on the local forum; the seller had been encouraged to trade them in at that same store.

My fish currently live in a community tank (not a breeding tank ;) ), and I'm happy just seeing them interact and care for the brood, but it's good to know that I should be calling these a hybrid if I do pass any on to others.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,915
Messages
116,201
Members
13,027
Latest member
tonc61

Latest profile posts

Josh wrote on anewbie's profile.
Testing
EDO
Longtime fish enthusiast for over 70years......keen on Apistos now. How do I post videos?
Looking for some help with fighting electric blue rams :(
Partial updated Peruvian list have more than this. Please PM FOR ANY QUESTIONS so hard to post with all the ads poping up every 2 seconds….
Top