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Cacatuoides in a 29?

Andrew Jordan

New Member
Messages
23
Hey guys, quick question. How many cacs do you think would be okay in a 29-gallon tank with a female angelfish and one male and female cacatuoides in it right now? The angel will be rehomed fairly soon so after she's gone I'm thinking about adding another female cacatuoides and would like to get a few other opinions. Attached are images of the tank and the scape I have set up. Another unrelated question, when keeping a tank with apistos and fry I understand you are supposed to keep the flow low, so how do you properly filter the tank removing detritus and keep the flow low? I have a canister filter running but with the fry, I have to turn it extremely low or even off sometimes so they don't get sucked up, I also have a sponge filter rated for 75 gallons running but this doesn't do much to remove debris and keep it from building up. Anyone have any advice on either topic?
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chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
333
Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
I would not add any other female. The female you have in there right now has her own territory, the same holds for your male. Adding a new female will give problems. Always buy them at the same time. You could always catch your own pair out, rescape the whole tank and introduce your pair + the new female. However i think your tank size is not big enough to house a trio.

Related to your cannister problem, i don't intend on breeding but i have had quite some fry that survived in my community tanks. I run a cannister filter myself, an eheim that filters 500L/h on my 120L tank. I have never had any problems with fry beeing sucked up by the filter. So how much water does your filter filter an hour?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,201
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Chris is right about stocking. If you do add another female cac - your tank should easily handle a trio - I suggest removing the original cacs, re-arranging the decor to remove old territories, and then add all 3 - after quarantining the new female.

I find the best way to keep a tank clean is to feed proper quantities of quality food and regular tank maintenance which included gravel cleaning.
 

Andrew Jordan

New Member
Messages
23
Okay, thank you for the information, I'm thinking about removing them and then tearing the tank down and starting from scratch with the tank. The canister on there is a Fluval 206, it filters about 206 gph which is probably the reason I'm having so much trouble with it. I feed 2 times a day consisting of omega one flakes and southern delight nano krill pellets and then maybe twice a week they get frozen or live brine shrimp, change the water about every 3 or 4 days including a gravel vac, except when there's fry in the tank. I think there just might be too many dead zones because of the scape and that's why I get detritus built up but hopefully, after the tear down that won't be the case. Either way, thank you both for the advice!
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
333
Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
I think that 3-4x times your water volume is more than enough for the average fish. Apisto's like it even a bit softer so your filter is a bit of a over kill maybe.

Chris is right about stocking. If you do add another female cac - your tank should easily handle a trio - .

What is the size of a 29 gallon? It is the same as a 20 gallon long right which is arround 70x30cm bottom space?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,201
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Just my personal opinion, but I never found apistos very eager to eat prepared foods so it just settles to the bottom where much of it builds up as detritus. Your fish might be different.

Chris, a 20 long and 29 high have the same bottom dimensions - ~75 x 30 cm. The 29 is deeper, 45 cm vs. 30 cm for a 20 long.
 

Andrew Jordan

New Member
Messages
23
So what would be your food recommendation? I've fed them a lot of frozen and live foods which they seem to love but I didn't want their diet to just consist strictly of that because I felt like it was too much protein for them. Another question for you Mike is my pair will spawn about every other week or so and always lose the fry really quickly, I don't think its predation from the angel because anytime she gets close the mother and father chase her away. I also don't think its water quality because I don't feed much and change the water every 3 days, so the only thing I can think of is the food, I've tried BBS cultures and never had any success with them so I ordered a micro worm culture and I'm going to try that. In your opinion do you think this will increase the survival rate and time they are alive? I've been feeding them frozen BBS in hopes that can sustain them until my culture arrives but I fear they are not eating it because every day I see fewer and fewer fry. I'm starting to feel the same way as far as my filter being overkill, I mean when it's turned down it's fine but still pushes fry around which I don't like, so I typically turn it to barely on and have my sponge filter running and the dimensions of the tank are 30in wide, 19in tall and 13in deep.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,201
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Live and frozen foods are all I give my apistos. They thrive and breed on it so their nutritional needs are being filled. Live foods will increase survival rates of your fry. Fry are motion-oriented when feeding. Food should stay in the water column. Any that end up on the bottom aren't eaten, at least until the fry are large enough to sift through the gravel. Frequent, small amounts work best.
 

Andrew Jordan

New Member
Messages
23
Okay, thank you for the information what frozen and live foods would you recommend for the adults? I've been feeding brine shrimp and mosquito larvae but am not sure what else is safe for them. I figured as much that my fry death was related to the food they were being fed or lack thereof I guess I'll wait until my new culture arives and hopefully it will coincide with when my pair decides to spawn again.
 

Andrew Jordan

New Member
Messages
23
Re-did the tank took all fish out and then reintroduced them all back in and it seemed to go well until the male in the tank started chasing the new female. I since then have removed the male again and I'm giving the new female time to adjust. Interestingly, the established female has not been as much as a bully as her male counterpart. How long should I leave the male out of the tank before trying to reintroduce him again?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,201
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Re: frozen food, where do you get frozen (black) mosquito larvae? I've only seen them sold in Europe. Or do you mean red mosquito larvae (bloodworms) or white mosquito larvae (glass worms)? As for frozen foods, any small sized crustacean or insect larvae should be taken by apistos. Same is true for live foods.

As for your male cac, each fish is a bit different. If the females are getting along well, then give them a week or so to establish their territories. Then add the male again.
 

Garri Ausmus

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
I spawned my pair twice in under a month and got perfect male to female ratio. the problem in the angel tank is it is 78 to 80 which will produce smaller spawns after months and months that are mosty male. I found that by yanking the heater i got the first spawn in a week. moved the male to the tank beside it and let the female keep them for a week. i put paper between the lengthwise 10 gallon tanks so the parents wouldn't see the fry and they spawned again29 days after the first spawn. be ready with a 55 gallon fry tank for them fast. i now have well over 200 fry in the 55 gallon grow out tank and no room for more tanks. had to stop at 20 because i got 12 spawns in12 weeks time. I have so many separated pairs of Cichlids now its crazy. many african and new world dwarfs, and a bunch of Victorian species also.
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Andrew Jordan

New Member
Messages
23
Re: frozen food, where do you get frozen (black) mosquito larvae? I've only seen them sold in Europe. Or do you mean red mosquito larvae (bloodworms) or white mosquito larvae (glass worms)? As for frozen foods, any small sized crustacean or insect larvae should be taken by apistos. Same is true for live foods.

As for your male cac, each fish is a bit different. If the females are getting along well, then give them a week or so to establish their territories. Then add the male again.
I don't get the frozen mosquito larva, I set out a bucket and harvest the larva and harvest that for all my tanks. However, my attempt to reintroduce them all fell apart when my established pair almost killed the new female. So I guess for now I am going to leave the pair in their tank alone, and Gary so are you saying when you removed the heater you got more spawns out of your pair? I just got a micro worm culture set up and now I just need my pair to spawn so I can pull the fry and raise them in a separate tank, only because I actually want to raise a batch of fry
 

Garri Ausmus

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
yes my Cacs stay in room temp tanks, the fry also. my pair came from a friend that had been trying for months, my first spawn was in weeks. It also seems the male to female ratio is effected by temp also.
 

Garri Ausmus

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
at about one month old the males start to show sex to parents and the males eat males. i took him out first night out free swimming fry. I left the female in because their tank was a bit of a mess. she took all the fry back into the apisto house every night. an hour after lights out i turned on the lights and vacuumed out the empty tank. I took her out after a week and put her in with him. they spawned again within a couple of weeks or so. First time out free swimming to the same was less than a month for my pair.
 

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